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ksampson3

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Here's a link to a really good article about the Peak Pass price increases for DC area skiers and how pissed off people are at the lack of pass options that have been offered in the past.

http://www.dcski.com/articles/1579

Maybe this should be a start to a New Post?
 

Coach13

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Here's a link to a really good article about the Peak Pass price increases for DC area skiers and how pissed off people are at the lack of pass options that have been offered in the past.

http://www.dcski.com/articles/1579

Maybe this should be a start to a New Post?

It’s amazing how many folks I know that have said they won’t be skiing next year. Lots of folks I know would buy the Advantage Card and ski a few days a year. I think they will lose many of those skiers and many Night Club skiers as well. I’ll still ski there some but not near as much.
 

jimmy

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Here's a link to a really good article about the Peak Pass price increases for DC area skiers and how pissed off people are at the lack of pass options that have been offered in the past.

http://www.dcski.com/articles/1579

Maybe this should be a start to a New Post?
Agreed.
Peak Resorts paid a high multiple of earnings/revenue for Snowtime. Seems the regulars aren't too thrilled with the "value added" by the Peak Pass. This should be a good discussion in it's own right.
 
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Coach13

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I think it’s a pretty poor assumption on Peak’s part to think Whitetail, Liberty and Roundtop day skiers would find value in a pass that provides them access to resorts that require extended travel. Pricing wise, the Peak Pass is comparable to my Epic Local Pass. I’m pretty sure that if I’m traveling 7+ hours to ski it’s not going to be at Hunter, for example.
 
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ksampson3

ksampson3

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It’s amazing how many folks I know that have said they won’t be skiing next year. Lots of folks I know would buy the Advantage Card and ski a few days a year. I think they will lose many of those skiers and many Night Club skiers as well. I’ll still ski there some but not near as much.

Yeah, I've been canvasing my neighbors for their input regarding reupping next year for season passes and not one of them has said that they are going to pay the increase. And these are people of means, not folks that are scrimping to find the money for season passes. All of their responses have been pretty much the same:

1) The season is too short for me to ski enough times to justify the higher cost of the season pass
2) I'll just take the money that I'll save (approximately $2,100 in the case of my family) and buy an Ikon or Epic Pass
3) I have no interest in skiing any of the other mountains that are listed on the Peak Pass on a weekend, i.e. there is no value in me paying so much more money to ski my local hills

On a funnier note from another forum...
So Peak Resorts failed to secure the FB page for their marquee product…oops. Need some more info about the company and its management team, business model, or other properties. Want to share your experience or voice a concern?

https://www.facebook.com/thepeakpass
 

Wasatchman

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Interesting and I feel your pain on the price increase.

The smaller ski resorts suffer from less scale that larger resorts.

I went to school in Wisconsin for a few years after university. You guys ought to take a look at the prices for "mountains" in Wisconsin.

I don't blame you for being frustrated, but the Alterra and Vail conglomerates are more than happy to take you on as pass holders and destroy your local bumps in the process. I fear it's going to happen and we're left with almost a pure duopoly.
 

LKLA

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Interesting and I feel your pain on the price increase.

The smaller ski resorts suffer from less scale that larger resorts.

I went to school in Wisconsin for a few years after university. You guys ought to take a look at the prices for "mountains" in Wisconsin.

I don't blame you for being frustrated, but the Alterra and Vail conglomerates are more than happy to take you on as pass holders and destroy your local bumps in the process. I fear it's going to happen and we're left with almost a pure duopoly.

I am not sure that we are "left with almost a pure duopoly". I don't believe Alterra or Vail own any resorts in Pennsylvania. There are over 20 ski resorts in Pennsylvania alone, offering plenty of choices/options to choose from that have nothing to do with Alterra or Vail:

(1) Alpine
(2) Bear Creek
(3) Blue Knob
(4) Blue Mountain
(5) Boyce
(6) Camelback
(7) Eagle Rock
(8) Elk
(9) Hidden Valley
(10) Jack Frost Big Boulder
(11) Laurel Mountain
(12) Liberty
(13) Montage
(14) Mount Pleasant
(15) Seven Springs
(16) Shawnee
(17) Ski Big Bear
(18) Roundtop
(19) SawMill
(20) Spring
(21) Tussey
(22) Whitetail
 

Wasatchman

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Vail (and now Alterra) are taking share from the smaller areas. As you know, that's part of their strategy. Investors aren't putting in such a high multiple for Vail in a flattish industry for nothing. Share gains is a HUGE part of the thesis. I think you know that more than most. Those share gains will drive more ski area closures.

Also, market consolidation is as much a function of market share of total ski days as it is number of areas. I think you miss this point when you keep going on about the total number of ski areas.
 

jimmy

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So for $600ish you get Liberty, Roundtop and Whitetail plus Mt Snow, Hunter, etc? Just saw the spring sale for Blue Knob and for $299 you get Blue Knob, admittedly a good value. I understand that Peak got rid of popular products but really, look at the value.
 

Coach13

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So for $600ish you get Liberty, Roundtop and Whitetail plus Mt Snow, Hunter, etc? Just saw the spring sale for Blue Knob and for $299 you get Blue Knob, admittedly a good value. I understand that Peak got rid of popular products but really, look at the value.

I don’t have an issue with the Peak Season Pass price. It’s comparable to the old Snowtime full season passes and does offer more resort options. That said, I never have and never will pay $600+ for a season pass to ski a few small hills. I don’t value that. The products they offered under Snowtime allowed me to ski there during off times for a reasonable price. That trade off was worth the expense for me and many others. Simple as that. We piss, moan and complain about Vail here, but compare the comparable priced Peak pass to the Vail Local pass and give me a value look on 1 vs the other.
 

LKLA

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Vail (and now Alterra) are taking share from the smaller areas. As you know, that's part of their strategy. Investors aren't putting in such a high multiple for Vail in a flattish industry for nothing. Share gains is a HUGE part of the thesis. I think you know that more than most. Those share gains will drive more ski area closures.

Also, market consolidation is as much a function of market share of total ski days as it is number of areas. I think you miss this point when you keep going on about the total number of ski areas.

My point has nothing to do with the business model or investment merit of Vail. It has everything to do with the reality/fact that there are plenty of options. I think you miss the point when you dismiss the fact that there are plenty of choices - over 400 of them. There are over 20 resorts in PA alone. Surely some suck and hopefully some are good. There are and always will be options. But to "ignore" the other options outside of Vail and Alterra is missing the point.

So, instead of raging all day long against Vail or Peak or Alterra, why not just go ski somewhere else. For starters, it seems like a much more constructive and healthy option than to keep going round and round. If I don't like Peak then I wont go to Mount Snow. I will go to Jiminey Peak instead. If I dont like Vail, then I wont go to Stowe. I would ski at Sugarbush or Smuggs instead. And if I were not a fan of Alterra, then I would not ski at Loon and ski at Cannon.

Btw, smaller areas can and do thrive in this environment. Just look at the very arguments being made here - some people no longer want to ski at Whitetail now that it is owned by Peak. Some people are complaining about crowding at Vail or Alterra owned/partner resorts out West. A-Basin is a recent example of a resort leveraging the situation. Magic Mountain is another. Plenty more individual and/or small mountains doing well.
 
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jimmy

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I hear you @Coach13 . I guess it would depend on how many days you used the pass in a season? What would you pay to just ski Whitetail? Problem with the Vail Local pass is it doesn't work at Whitetail.
 

LKLA

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So for $600ish you get Liberty, Roundtop and Whitetail plus Mt Snow, Hunter, etc? Just saw the spring sale for Blue Knob and for $299 you get Blue Knob, admittedly a good value. I understand that Peak got rid of popular products but really, look at the value.

Seems like $299 is a great value - though you have about 25 trails currently open at Blue Knob vs 60 trails open across Snowtime (I know there is more to consider than just trail count). Whatever you decide, at least you have what seems to be great options to choose from.
 
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jimmy

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Seems like $299 is a great value - though you have about 25 trails currently open at Blue Knob vs 60 trails open across Snowtime (I know there is more to consider than just trail count). Whatever you decide, at least you have what seems to be great options to choose from.

Peak pass or Blue Knob is not a decision for me. I ski free (actually they pay me to ski ogwink) at Canaan Valley and have an Ikon Pass and an Abasin season pass. I've only used the Ikon seven days so far this season and will get six days at Abasin in May.
 

Coach13

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I hear you @Coach13 . I guess it would depend on how many days you used the pass in a season? What would you pay to just ski Whitetail? Problem with the Vail Local pass is it doesn't work at Whitetail.

...no question it matters how many days you plan to ski. I paid a little over $200 for my Night Club card and skied around 15 times using the pass. If I lived in the shadow of 1 of the 3 local resorts or Mt. Snow I may feel differently. Value is certainly in the eyes of the beholder snd I certainly don’t begrudge the folks who value the Peak or any other pass. BTW-I’m pretty aware of where the Vail pass is good or not. lol
 

Miller

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So, instead of raging all day long against Vail or Peak or Alterra, why not just go ski somewhere else. For starters, it seems like a much more constructive and healthy option than to keep going round and round. If I don't like Peak then I wont go to Mount Snow. I will go to Jiminey Peak instead. If I dont like Vail, then I wont go to Stowe. I would ski at Sugarbush or Smuggs instead. And if I were not a fan of Alterra, then I would not ski at Loon and ski at Cannon.

Living in the DC area, Peak has a monopoly on reasonable day trips. All other ski areas in PA, MD, and WV are more than 2 hours away (closer to 3 hours or more).

My family of four has had Advantage Cards for the past 10 years, which got us 40% off tickets all season long. We do about 5 one day trips a year to these areas and a couple of longer weekends to other areas (Canaan, Gore, Colorado, VT). I paid approximately $1000 in tickets for the four of us including the purchase of the Advantage Cards. Next year to ski the same will cost over $1400.

What does this mean for my family. Not really sure. I know I will ski less at the Liberty, Whitetail, and Roundtop next year. We will try to do more weekend trips to other areas, but will need to figure out how all the extra costs of lodging/food/gas/dog sitter and other kids events and sports will influence our number of ski days. What I do know, is that it will cost us more to ski next year than it did this year.

I really feel this is a very bad for the overall health of the sport. For where I live, there is now not a place for a family to be introduced to the sport in a reasonable way. I see families going skiing one day a year, but not more due to the costs. Most people are not going to drive 3 hours each way for a ski day.

Add in the Timberline fiasco, and it has really become a bad time to be a Mid Atlantic/DC area skier.
 

Suzski

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I re-upped but I went for a limited pass for 19/20. I have the unlimited this year which I only bought b/c it was so cheap last year (it was paid for before the 17/18 season even ended). I only ski WT and Liberty during the week and never on a holiday. I only put in about 10 days per season at those areas when I can escape the office for a day mid-week. If that plays out again next year the pass will pay for itself but not as quickly. None of the 3 is my home mountain where I ski every weekend and holiday. I have good friends near Wildcat (NH), so I may take advantage of that option next year. Plus, I'm fortunate enough to be able to go out west several times per season - not that it matters re the Peak Pass.

I do feel for the regulars and especially the folks with kids. Where do the Peakers think their future customers are going to come from? The price hike is astronomical unless, as one woman in the article remarked, they plan to add vertical.
 
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