Plug boot arch support

[onenerdykid]

When did absolutes come into bootfitting?

If we say there are no absolutes in boot fitting, then that itself becomes an absolute within boot fitting. It's a self defeating statement. So, the reality is more like- there are (very) few absolutes in boot fitting.

Question: there's been a trend in running for pronated footed people to not use orthotics or shoe shims, but instead to strengthen their feet with exercises or adjust their stance. Seems to have worked for some people as their normal pronated stance is not an issue anymore when they are running.

Is that possible with skiing? To adjust your stance by practice and repetition, supplemented with dryland exercises, until it becomes a habit and second nature to not be pronated?

Physics always wins. The strongest and/or most rigid foot is still more flexible than the ski boot. Therefore, it will move inside the ski boot when force is applied to it, especially the force & torque of a 180+cm lever arm underneath it called a ski, traveling at speed down a slope. The foot can't win that battle, it needs help. It needs support, it needs guidance. And that is what a proper footbed will achieve.

Even if you could strengthen the foot and therefore control it in a ski boot while skiing, why would you want to waste the physical and mental effort in order to do that EVERY turn and in addition to everything else we need to think about while skiing? We progressed into plastic ski boots from leather ones because the plastic version makes skiing easier and more enjoyable. The plastic ski boot is doing more of the work for us. Footbeds are doing a similar thing - guiding the foot so we don't have to.

 

[gvisockas]

More info on cold feet relative to instep pressure over the mid foot bump or surfers knot…

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In the end, @otto saves the day (taken from a different thread). Turns out that the left bootboard (no instep or supported arch problem) is concave and the right one (troublesome) is convex as shown in the picture. Will sand it, get some low profile insoles later in the week and hopefully it will solve much of my problem.

 

[ted]

Arch support isn’t necessarily about arch support. It’s more like improving the base foundations of the arch with appropriate heel, plantar, and forefoot countours.

 

[gvisockas]

@ted fair point, but in all seriousness, contour is a property more attributed to shape whereas support, foundation are properties attributed to acting forces. A practical question to you and all- would you rather use insoles made for a weighted, but corrected foot (i.e. knee rotation) or an unweighted foot? The latter contours the foot as-it-should-be, but takes up more space etc..

 

[cem]

@ted fair point, but in all seriousness, contour is a property more attributed to shape whereas support, foundation are properties attributed to acting forces. A practical question to you and all- would you rather use insoles made for a weighted, but corrected foot (i.e. knee rotation) or an unweighted foot? The latter contours the foot as-it-should-be, but takes up more space etc..

why would a footbed made for a non weighted foot take up more space than one for a weighted (but corrected) foot

when it comes to correcting that weight foot, gravity is a wonderful thing, but in a fully weighted position it is dam near impossible to keep that foot in the exactly correct position

 

[gvisockas]

I understand your confusion @cem. The amplitude of my navicular drop is enough to consider it hypermobile. When weighted, I can for sure correct my alignment by tensing up muscles and so lifting my medial arch or, say, alter the position of the heel, knee etc.. This all happens with a dropped navicular, though. I had insoles made with a sidas-like machine while standing and they did not provide enough support to stop the navicular collapse. What I meant was (at least for me), I can have a foot with a supported arch and dropped navicular that has low instep (takes up less space) but quite flat otherwise, or I can have it in an unweighted position in which the navicular does not drop and I have a better overall position with the cost of a higher instep.

I spent some time and found out that I feel lots of pressure where the lace retainers are. Turns out that they can be up to 4mm thick. I am planning on cutting them off and either pressing a flat eyelet on the side or just leaving them as-is.

 

[cem]

so in answer to the the question

a non weight bearing insole WILL NOT take up any more space than a weighted insole with the foot in a corrected position

i understand your desire to do this yourself, but by the time you get the result a good boot fitter could get in a couple of hours the season will most likely be over

 

[otto]

I understand your confusion @cem. The amplitude of my navicular drop is enough to consider it hypermobile. When weighted, I can for sure correct my alignment by tensing up muscles and so lifting my medial arch or, say, alter the position of the heel, knee etc.. This all happens with a dropped navicular, though. I had insoles made with a sidas-like machine while standing and they did not provide enough support to stop the navicular collapse. What I meant was (at least for me), I can have a foot with a supported arch and dropped navicular that has low instep (takes up less space) but quite flat otherwise, or I can have it in an unweighted position in which the navicular does not drop and I have a better overall position with the cost of a higher instep.

I spent some time and found out that I feel lots of pressure where the lace retainers are. Turns out that they can be up to 4mm thick. I am planning on cutting them off and either pressing a flat eyelet on the side or just leaving them as-is.
View attachment 216203

 

[cem]

@otto shows it 100% again

small incremental changes and precise location make a massive difference

 

[Noodler]

In the end, @otto saves the day (taken from a different thread). Turns out that the left bootboard (no instep or supported arch problem) is concave and the right one (troublesome) is convex as shown in the picture. Will sand it, get some low profile insoles later in the week and hopefully it will solve much of my problem.

Proceed with caution padowan...

It is incredibly easy to really screw up the "angles" of the bootboard if you try to do this by hand (don't ask me how I know). Without using some kind of jig, it's very difficult to maintain uniform pressure and evenly sand the top of the bootboard to keep it level across all the different axes. You may inadvertently introduce internal bootboard canting that will impact your stance and your fit.

I think it's a good idea to understand the principles of boot fit and alignment so that you can communicate and work with a good fitter. However, unless you're willing to learn some hard lessons (and fail multiple times along the way), doing your own boot work has a lot of risk.