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Plug Boots with Gripwalk

EricG

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I don't want to wear plug boots anymore, but I do want to use FIS skis occasionally, meaning non-gripwalk compatible bindings. I'd consider GW boots, but can't because of the binding situation on FIS skis. I don't like carrying catracks around just because it's just more stuff to deal with, but I do. I'd consider two pairs of boots, but that seems like an even bigger pain, although I wouldn't mind some coaching boots with some extra room, walk mode, and GW. But I can't see myself ever really skiing in those, just coaching/instructing (there is no skinning around where I live).

In discussions with the rep last year there are a few Marker bindings that will work with GW and designed to work with the WC Piston plate. ( for example: X-Comp16, confirmed w/ rep last season). Depending on the plate interface your using, it could be an option..

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Philpug

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In discussions with the rep last year there are a few Marker bindings that will work with GW and designed to work with the WC Piston plate. ( for example: X-Comp16, confirmed w/ rep last season).
X-Comp 12 GW and X-Comp 16 GW


Start at 5:50
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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Sorry, that's not a plug anymore.
I think there was a hole in boot manufacturer's product lines between traditional stiff and narrow plugs and high end performance consumer boots that needed to be plugged (hehehe) over the years.

Maybe it was new entrants to skiing, who weren't necessarily ex-racers, who came upon the sport when they were already older (and thus didn't develop a narrow foot from childhood ski boot foot binding) and got better over the years and needed a tighter, more responsive boot (but not too narrow at the front like traditional plugs) that needed to be served.

Or it was the popularity of the book Born to Run that encouraged people to spread out their toes and run with forefoot strike that changed people's foot shape over the years to become wider at the front.

Or maybe it's the obesity epidemic.

And so manufacturer's responded with consumer boots which were higher volume and plug boots that were medium volume.

I don't know the reason for soft flexes in plug boots. Somebody chime in? Could it be older skiing demographic who are still skilled but don't charge as hard?

For myself, I think the day-one fit that becomes day 1+n slop (n being 7, 14, 21, 30 days or whatever number of days when the liner becomes sloppy) is a real phenomena that can be mitigated with a plug.

Adding gripwalk to race line is just a logical step in filling holes in the product lines. It's just capitalism - to give people what they want. It's the same reason we have 100 varieties of cereals in the cereal aisle. The capitalist system can provide all sorts and varieties of consumer and race boots in a wide spectrum and in all sorts of SKU combinations.
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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Not older, but younger. The 100 to 120 flex plugs are often used for entry-level FIS for 16-year-olds.

Ah yes of course. And women who generally weigh lighter as well as some men who are on the lighter side as well?
 

Mark1975

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Ah yes of course. And women who generally weigh lighter as well as some men who are on the lighter side as well?
Weight plays a part in the equation, but it is really how much power you can put into a boot before you start to collapse it. I have known 125 lb girls at ski academies that are in 140 flex Lange ZBs. Plus you can't compare the flex of race plugs to consumer race boots. The "soft" 130 flex Lange ZA is way, way more boot than anything they make for the consumer side. Their consumer RS130 is an overcooked wet noodle compared to the ZA even though the advertised flex is the same. The only thing I would consider using an RS130 for is standing on the side of the hill when coaching.
 

BLiP

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plug boots that were medium volume
Could you provide an example of one of these medium volume plugs? I suspect you’re using the term to generically refer to any boot within a manufacturer’s racing line, including the 96-98mm consumer race boots, but I could be wrong. “Plug” seems to have lost all meaning over the years and should probably just be retired from the lexicon.
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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I suspect you’re using the term to generically refer to any boot within a manufacturer’s racing line, including the 96-98mm consumer race boots, but I could be wrong.
Yes that's exactly how I use the term. My impression is any boot in the racing line up that
a. have thick plastic that need to predominantly be ground than heat moulded to wrap around the foot (that phrase floating around in this forum "not designed to fit out of the box but designed to be fit out of the box") and
b. have solid soles for stance alignment manipulation
regardless of volume or flex, are plugs
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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What's everybody else's definition of a plug?
 

BLiP

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Yes that's exactly how I use the term.
All plugs are race boots, not all race boots are plugs. Plugs are a very specialized subset of the race category designed for high level racing. They’ll usually be designated with a “WC” or something similar in the model name. For instance, the Lange RS 130 is not a plug; the Lange WC RS ZB is. The Dalbello DRS 140 is not a plug; the Dalbello DRS WC H is. The Atomic CS 130 is not a plug; the Atomic TI 150 is.

Consumer race boots like the Lange RS or Atomic CS have some anatomical shaping built into the last. Traditionally, plug boots utilized a completely non-anatomical plug last, hence the name, that required forming and grinding before it would fit on anyone’s foot. Most people still reserve the term “plug” for the very specialized subset of boots within a manufacturer’s line that are 91-93mm.
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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All plugs are race boots, not all race boots are plugs. Plugs are a very specialized subset of the race category designed for high level racing. They’ll usually be designated with a “WC” or something similar in the model name. For instance, the Lange RS 130 is not a plug; the Lange WC RS ZB is. The Dalbello DRS 140 is not a plug; the Dalbello DRS WC H is. The Atomic CS 130 is not a plug; the Atomic TI 150 is.

Consumer race boots like the Lange RS or Atomic CS have some anatomical shaping built into the last. Traditionally, plug boots utilized a completely non-anatomical plug last, hence the name, that required forming and grinding before it would fit on anyone’s foot. Most people still reserve the term “plug” for the very specialized subset of boots within a manufacturer’s line that are 91-93mm.
Are there "boots (that) utilized a completely non-anatomical plug last, hence the name, that required forming and grinding" that are not WC? What should I call them?
 

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Are there "boots (that) utilized a completely non-anatomical plug last, hence the name, that required forming and grinding" that are not WC? What should I call them?
I’ll defer to others with more inside knowledge, but as far as I’m aware, even the narrowest boots have some anatomical shaping now.

I think what you’re looking at, though, are the mid volume racing boots. I refer to these simply as consumer race boots. Not as easy to say as plug but more accurate.

And it is much more reasonable for you to be interested in a consumer race boot. Many people around here use them. They’ll generally require some grinding/shaping but are comfortable for all day wear once you get them fit properly. And yes, I am surprised that they don’t have GW options for some of the consumer race boots. The Lange RS has a GW lifter option, but I think its only for the wide version. I suspect that there isn't a high demand. Most people in race boots are used to walking on a hard lug, use race bindings, and just replace their lifters when they wear down.
 

onenerdykid

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Race boots = boots used by professional/semi-professional racers (<95mm forefoot width)
Race-inspired boots = boots coming out of the same molds (or inspired molds) but with wider lasts (>95mm forefoot width), not used by professional/semi-professional racers

The whole "plug" usage is the weirdest way to refer to race boots and no manufacturer that produces such boots refers to them as "plugs". It's an oddly North American word. Their lasts are anatomical and look just like a regular lasts, they're just narrower and lower volume. And they don't look like any of these:
spark plug.jpg
drainplugs-med-600x600.jpg
electricity-type-A-plug.jpg
s-l500.jpg
 
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Rich_Ease_3051

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The Lange RS has a GW lifter option, but I think its only for the wide version. I suspect that there isn't a high demand.

Yeah I was looking at that the other day to add to my short list of plug consumer race boots with GW option. May you please have a look if this is the Wide RS and if this is the correct Gripwalk option for it?



I'll email Lange and Ski Equipment UK to verify anyway, but please feel free to share your thoughts if you think they are.

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onenerdykid

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I don't know the reason for soft flexes in plug boots. Somebody chime in? Could it be older skiing demographic who are still skilled but don't charge as hard?
Smaller people with narrow feet looking for a high-performance options. A 110-flex race boot is often on par with an "all mountain" 130 flex, but will offer more lower shell stability, better damping, more shock absorption, etc. The current overall leader & 5th place women on the Freeride World Tour are both using the Redster STI 110 and they would love a GripWalk version.
 

BLiP

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The current overall leader & 5th place women on the Freeride World Tour are both using the Redster STI 110 and they would love a GripWalk version
And you haven't made custom versions for them? I would have imagined that as the overall leader of a world tour, you would get whatever you want. Maybe not, unfortunately.
 

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