Question about seasoning a performance ski

[no edge]

I was riding the lift and skiing with an older fellow, from Norway, has lived here since 1960. He is 86 and is one of the finest skiers I have ever met. His skills are amazing. Still racing Masters at the very highest level. He was friends with Stein E. Said Stein carved turns before it was invented. Taught him!

Anyway, he was skiing on a pair of Head gs skis and he mentioned that he was in that sweet spot of seasoning having owned them for three years. It's like a break-in period.

We talked about my skis, the i TITAN and he asked if I had experienced this seasoning with them. I have in fact found that hard and stiff skis do break-in. My ski is often recommended to intermediate to expert skiers. I have always felt that the ski is too much for many (maybe even me). This ski rips but I am always on it, or so it seems.

Does anyone buy into the idea that some skis get beter with time?

 

[markojp]

Not really. Never found the Titan super demanding old or new, but a nice ski for sure.

 

[pchewn]

Does anyone buy into the idea that some skis get beter with time?

I'm quite sure it is the Skier who is getting better with time, not the skis. Maybe even the skier is learning how to turn that ski better with time.

 

[fatbob]

Sounds like guff unless he means knocking a bit of the camber out of them by skiing them lots. More than possible the skier just gets used to the ski's precise characteristics.

 

[Tony S]

I was riding the lift and skiing with an older fellow, from Norway, has lived here since 1960. He is 86 and is one of the finest skiers I have ever met. His skills are amazing. Still racing Masters at the very highest level. He was friends with Stein E. Said Stein carved turns before it was invented. Taught him!

Anyway, he was skiing on a pair of Head gs skis and he mentioned that he was in that sweet spot of seasoning having owned them for three years. It's like a break-in period.

We talked about my skis, the i TITAN and he asked if I had experienced this seasoning with them. I have in fact found that hard and stiff skis do break-in. My ski is often recommended to intermediate to expert skiers. I have always felt that the ski is too much for many (maybe even me). This ski rips but I am always on it, or so it seems.

Does anyone buy into the idea that some skis get beter with time?

I'm sure that there was a LOT to the notion of a ski's performance changing over its lifetime when it was essentially just laminated wood. No doubt this guy is still carrying that background with him if he started skiing 80 years ago in 1940.

 

[D. Trenker]

Great post. I buy into the idea that people like this know what they're talking about.

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm sure that there was a LOT to the notion of a ski's performance changing over its lifetime when it was essentially just laminated wood. No doubt this guy is still carrying that background with him if he started skiing 80 years ago in 1940.

Ironically, seasoning bike tires is still a thing.

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[Scruffy]

For most of us, skis break down, not in. For this individual, there are too many unknown variables for anyone to make a good guess. Were the Head GS skis true WC race stock? How much does he weigh? Is he a finesse skier or power skier? Does he normally like to "tough it out" until either he or it complies within other aspects of his life? Were the skis in question still used for his racing, or seasoned enough for free skiing in soft snow? I'd be interesting to pick his brain on it.

 

[Mike Thomas]

Well, skis get faster as they get waxed/ skied/ waxed/ skied, if that's what he means then absolutely yes, skis can get better.

 

[markojp]

Well, skis get faster as they get waxed/ skied/ waxed/ skied, if that's what he means then absolutely yes, skis can get better.

I'll agree with that!

 

[Philpug]

Well, skis get faster as they get waxed/ skied/ waxed/ skied, if that's what he means then absolutely yes, skis can get better.

This is true especailly when it comes to speed (event) skis. With the right seasoning (waxing/skiing/hot boxing), done correctly, skis will get faster.

 

[Lauren]

Does anyone buy into the idea that some skis get better with time?

Short answer: It depends on the ski and the skier

Long answer: Lets take this back to college, Strength of Materials 101.

The two main structural properties relevant here are stiffness and strength. Stiffness is the ability for a material to resist a load, and return to its original state (which affects the amount the ski bends when a person skis it). Strength is amount of stress a material can withstand before it fails. I won't get into the equations of these (I don't remember them off the top of my head), but I'll note that the strength of the material is a measured value (the elastic modulus), and the stiffness is a function of the modulus. Then there is material fatigue, which occurs when a material is constantly being loaded and unloaded. Each time it's loaded, it creates stress. This stress creates fatigue which causes microscopic tears, stretches or breaks in the fibers of the material. These microscopic tears change the overall performance of the material. Here's the best diagram I could find to demonstrate that:

(Source: Fatigue Stress - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics )
This specific diagram was for a carbon-epoxy composite that was being loaded/unloaded over time.

Now that we have those properties, let's think of the materials used in most ski constructions: wood, fiberglass, carbon fibers, a metal alloy (with Titanal being the most common) and a resin to hold it all together. Each of these materials have their own properties, and when they're put together as a composite, they create the properties of the ski. Over time, you are creating material fatigue on the ski by loading and unloading it. Ideally, you want to stay in the flat part of the strength curve shown above, when it starts to bend down this is when you're really losing the pop and rebound of the ski. But as you see the stiffness drops off right away, which is why most skis feel the stiffest the first time you ski them, but they break-in pretty quickly. This initial "drop" in stiffness will vary in length and steepness depending on the make-up of the ski and it's material composition. The stiffness then very slowly drops from there, until complete failure. Some skiers may find a ski to perform best right as it initially drops off the stiffness. While others may enjoy a "seasoned" stiffness.

 

[Bad Bob]

As the flex changes with use so does the performance. Older skis with older materials were more prone to become less stiff with use.
Think it is more a case of the skier finding the sweet spot in a skis' performance and design. They can become more like old friends, easy to hang out with.

 

[James]

Slalom skis usually end up torsionally weaker and not holding an edge as well. Most consider this worser. If you’re not racing it, you really don’t know the extent until replaced.

 

[scott43]

I can only say, I envy those of you who could tell the difference between seasoned and unseasoned skis!

 

[cantunamunch]

I can only say, I envy those of you who could tell the difference between seasoned and unseasoned skis!

Put them on the roof rack for a trip to Tremblant; by the time you get there...

 

[eok]

When I get a new set of skis, it sometimes takes a number of ski days before I think I'm getting everything I can get out of them that they offer. I think this is a function of at least 3 things:

1) Getting the tuning dialed over time. If you are hand tuning, it can take a number of tuning sessions to get the optimum tune. At least, it does for me. Hand tuning new skis to get them where I want them often takes at least 3 sessions and sometimes more than that. Some work, like flattening, can take forever by hand and is better to take to a shop for grinding. Just depends how stubborn I am about insisting on doing all my own tuning by hand. I have to admit I'm getting lazier as I get older.

2) Waxing. For me, it usually takes a number of waxing sessions to get the bases to their best glide potential. I know, I know, this is perhaps controversial now - because it implies the notion of fully "saturating the pores" of the sintered base material used in most quality skis. Whatever. I do notice a glide improvement after maybe a half dozen wax cycles.

3) Getting used to the skis and adjusting style/strategy to get the most out of them. I feel this is the biggest factor - but it's probably nullified if the tune and glide sucks.

 

[no edge]

I'm sure that there was a LOT to the notion of a ski's performance changing over its lifetime when it was essentially just laminated wood. No doubt this guy is still carrying that background with him if he started skiing 80 years ago in 1940.

Not quite. Although he is 86 he was skiing Head GS skis, but I am not sure what level ie: World Cup. There is tremendous respect for his knowledge and experience at the mountain - and his humility. I have always felt that a ski does "season" and that is a good thing in certain cases.

 

[James]

I can only say, I envy those of you who could tell the difference between seasoned and unseasoned skis!

You one of those anti-salt people?

 

[Ogg]

You one of those anti-salt people?

I'm really surprised/disappointed(there must be a German word for this) that this is the first food seasoning reference. I was tempted to post a couple myself but resisted as not to clutter he thread.