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Question about seasoning a performance ski

KingGrump

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What are your days estimates for various types of skis?

Kendo-
Slalom-
Stöckli-

Duh, I totally overlooked that I do have data on Stockli from other family member. Not too sure the data is valid or not. Mamie has couple pair of SR 85W. The older one has 180 days on them and the newer one has 140 days. Last season I mixed them up after tuning. She did not voiced any difference before I noticed the screw up after few days. :huh:
She didn't mentioned anything about her new pair at the start of this season other than she didn't like the tune. No complaints after I hand tuned it for her.
 

Eric Edelstein

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If you find a "recreational" all-mountain carver too flimsy, and a pure race-ski too demanding and uncompliant.... how about a race ski weakened somewhat by several seasons of skiing, yet still has a well-curated base and edge tune condition? I've found some old race-oriented skis were a blast to ski recreationally after they fell from the top-rung of race performance, yet outclassed the all-mountain skis for grip and acceleration.... That may be what some feel is a "seasoned" ski... Lots of people still gently flex a new ski deeply by hand a bunch of times to get the "crinkles" out of them, loosening some of the bonds between layers (you can hear it...don;t do this in the shop...break 'em...you buy 'em!). Some skis are more responsive to this over-flexing by hand...but skiing a new ski for several seasons may have the same relative effect... I think I can definitely feel a ski changing its flex response over several seasons of usage until it's time to retire them because they really don't work well any more...no matter how good a tune you put on them.
 

DanoT

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I have found most new skis seem to work better for me after a while (I can't put an exact number down for the number of days though), and then they start losing their rigidity, except for my Old Kästle SGs. Those SGs never skied as well as they did their first day, with the factory tune, but they haven't worn out too much either considering their age.

I tend to be on stiffer and longer skis than most would recommend for my weight though.

I had a pair of Kastle SG back in the early 80s when Super G was a fairly new event. Mine where 208cm; they also came in 213cm. I put more days on those Kastle SG than any other ski that I have owned, before or since.
 

geepers

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The shock absorber mindset. You don't know how bad they are until you get new ones!

Some years back there was an USA motorcycle racer called Gary Nixon. Nixon was AMA Grand National Champion in 1967 and 68. Also won the Daytona 200 in 1968. Later in his career he did well in road racing winning the 1973 U.S. National Road Racing Championship and competing successfully internationally. His tuner for the road racing machines was Erv Kanemoto who was a tuning legend in motorcycle road racing.

Now Nixon had a thing for shock absorbers wearing out. And after some number of racing miles he would let Kanemoto know that the shocks needed replacing. Which Kanemoto would do - Nixon would go out and report back how much better the bike was handling with the new shocks.

They were going through a lot of equipment so after a time Kanemoto thought he'd check out of Nixon could really tell the difference. He polished up a pair of already used ones. When Nixon asked for new shocks he put those on. Nixon went out and broke the lap record and said "See - new shocks are great!".

Kanemoto only admitted he'd done that in an interview years time later. Said it was more important for the rider to think he was on new equipment than to prove he couldn't actually tell the difference. Kanemoto is a smart guy.
 

scott43

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Kanemoto is a legend. But that's an interesting story I hadn't heard about him. And it goes back to some things I say to people that cause consternation. Like, the rear triangle on a bicycle can have an affect on ride quality. So I say, put a blindfold on and try riding three different bikes and you tell me which one has the softer triangle and I'll eat my hat if you can tell the difference in ride quality! The mind is to the body a 3 is to 1...
 

fatbob

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If you find a "recreational" all-mountain carver too flimsy, and a pure race-ski too demanding and uncompliant.... how about a race ski weakened somewhat by several seasons of skiing, yet still has a well-curated base and edge tune condition? I've found some old race-oriented skis were a blast to ski recreationally after they fell from the top-rung of race performance, yet outclassed the all-mountain skis for grip and acceleration.... That may be what some feel is a "seasoned" ski...

That's almost exactly the question I was going to ask in response to the proliferation of piste based premium skis ( or at least proliferation of pugski based review of such premium skis - I'm not sure the average skier will get to see many on the rack in their local store). Why are they more premium than somthing that has been built for the ultimate performance? I'm guessing the answer is performance envelope i.e. more forgiving for a wider range of inputs but still the same go. Maybe? Sorta?
 

Joby Graham

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Kanemoto is a legend. But that's an interesting story I hadn't heard about him. And it goes back to some things I say to people that cause consternation. Like, the rear triangle on a bicycle can have an affect on ride quality. So I say, put a blindfold on and try riding three different bikes and you tell me which one has the softer triangle and I'll eat my hat if you can tell the difference in ride quality! The mind is to the body a 3 is to 1...
Some guys really can tell. Chris Amon was testing F1 tires - set "A" goes on the car, driver does a couple of flying laps, comes in and debriefs with the engineers while the crew puts set B on. Rinse, repeat through the test. Later in the day, the engineers tell the crew to take the latest set off, take them over the wall, but bring them back out and put them back on the car while the engineers distract Amon. He goes out, does a lap, pulls back in, pauses for a moment and asks: "Is it possible you put the same set back on?". No way of knowing, except by the seat of pants.
 

ski otter 2

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Slalom skis usually end up torsionally weaker and not holding an edge as well. Most consider this worser. If you’re not racing it, you really don’t know the extent until replaced.

Yeah, this^^^^^^. I notice some skis "seasoning," some of them more noticeably, some not, some for the better, some for need of base flattening, or edge adjustment, mostly. And they seem, to me, to get softer flexing lengthwise also, often.

With FIS SL skis especially: I get my race skis second hand, often "better than new," and one can often tell if a slalom ski was a practice ski (lots of use) or a race course ski (just used for the few actual runs on the courses), by both appearance and how soft it flexes, seems like. These SL skis break down much faster, apparently, being flexed so powerfully through so many turns, BOTH torsionally and lengthwise, I believe, and while they probably do break down more noticeably torsionally (for the worse), this can be compensated for to some extent more easily, IF the ski is just being used recreationally, by keeping the edge sharp and more immediate (through judicious use of base flattening and shallower/more progressive base beveling, to fit the ski now, based on one's own skier feedback: if it feels less edge-engaged in a certain way, one can partially correct for that, in the right areas, almost automatically, with practice, between ski days, on the tune bench.

With repeat tuning to fit ski performance, skis often can get more dialed in with time, in addition to faster with repeat waxing.
 

Blue Streak

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I keep a pair of VR17s in the cellar next to the Chateau Margaux ‘62.

Just waiting for the right occasion.
 

Uncle-A

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This is true especailly when it comes to speed (event) skis. With the right seasoning (waxing/skiing/hot boxing), done correctly, skis will get faster.
I have to agree with this and add it would be a smoother guide that could make the ski feel better or seasoned. Just one question might be is the second or third day of a new tune better than the first? I think it it probably is but that's only me, any thoughts?
 

Uncle-A

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Talked about my skis, the i TITAN and he asked if I had experienced this seasoning with them. I have in fact found that hard and stiff skis do break-in. My ski is often recommended to intermediate to expert skiers. I have always felt that the ski is too much for many (maybe even me). This ski rips but I am always on it, or so it seems.
The i Titan is quite the ski and I have skied it several times although I do own the i Rally. I can ski the Rally all day but the Titan beats me up in the morning and can't ski it past lunch. But it is probably fine for younger people because I am 70+ and not in the best of conditioning.
 

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