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Quiver needs another addition - Softer/Wider Ski

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Frank Ricard

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Please explain the "sit back" comment you've mentioned a few times. I get the "smear" part, but not the sitting back.
Skiing it very centered - and using the rear tail more. How you would ski tighter trees or bigger bumps. In my head I feel like I am sitting "back" more, but in reality I should say centered.

Just re-read this. You haven't skied the M102 yet?

Definitely put some time on those before picking your next ski to complement those. How are you going to find a ski that compares to the mantras if you don't know how they perform for you? I find the m102 can make those big fast turns, handle the crud pretty decent, go sideways and then I can drop into bumps /trees and have a total blast. Since the M102 is relatively stiff and heavy, that would incline me to seek out a powder ski abit on the stiffer/heavier(less playful) spectrum. If you find the M102 is too unwieldy in tight trees and bumps, then I would shift into a softer/lighter(in general) powder ski.

I ski how I ski, and I want whatever ski Im on to be able to ski that way regardless if it's a 90mm or a 115mm. I don't want to change my skiing style to match a ski, the ski should match your style.


I'd also say I don't find a 102 to 108 jump that huge for a everyday vs powder ski....But if I could have a 6 ski quiver, then I'd slot a 108 in between a 102 and a 112'ish to 118'ish.
Appreciate the continued feedback - correct, I have not skied the Mantra's. I could end up being wrong since I haven't skied them, but the Enforcer 104 wasnt playful enough for me in tight trees and bigger bumps, and being that the Mantra is a stiffer ski, I doubt it will be better for me. I think there are a few factors here, all probably true - You very well might be a better skier than I am and you also might be skiing much more open terrain than I hoping to get a ski for. I don't have the ability to *charge* like I like to charge in open terrain through trees and bumps. Again, maybe I am just not a good enough skier, but I need to ski much more centered in those situations and wipe off speed a lot faster - I want a more playful ski for that, and it would be great if that was also a powder ski.... I think what you're telling me is that if I do decide to do this, I should look to a 112-118 ski, rather than something in the 108 range.

As an aside - buying something used, riding it 4-5 times and selling it at a 100 dollar loss is really no big deal for me, because its easier for me to do that than demo stuff, because of where I live. There's not a great selection here, and when I go to CO or UT I don't love dealing with arranging rental/demo's. A lot of times they don't have the ski in the size I want anyway.

The Mantra 102 is not a powder ski by any means. Its a soft snow charger that even does well on firm snow. Its more of a wide all mountain ski. It is heavy, holds a great edge and plows through snow. It is not for everyone. You need to drive it with authority for it to be happy.

The Enforcer 110 free is much more of a powder ski but still serves well as an all mountain ski. Much more accessible ski.

The Icelantic Nomad 115 is even more of a powder ski than the Enforcer 110 Free but can still be a daily driver for all soft snow days, doesnt have to be used in deep snow only. Works well say 2" days and up. It is easy in moguls and trees.

More than width it is the design and construction of a ski that will determine its character and best use. This is specially true in the 100~108mm ski width range in which you will find a wide range of skis of similar widths but some will be MUCH softer and playful than others.
The first bolded is exactly why I took everyone's advice and bought the Mantras - thats what I want out of that ski. The second two bolded parts is exactly why I am asking the question - I'd like to get another ski that is easier (better?) in moguls, trees and powder - something more playful.
 

Mike Rogers

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I've paired my 184 Mantra 102s with 184 Moment Deathwish (112mm) skis. I use these 2 skis 90% of the time at the resort (I use something else for really deep days).

The Deathwish excels in tight spaces, is better in the air, floats better, and is definitely better for pivoting, smearing, and playful skiing in general. It accepts a more centered (freestyle) stance, and is quite different from the Mantra.

I like the Mantras for their stability and the ability to ski with speed in rough snow.

I haven't been on many of the other skis on your list, but for me, this is a nice 1, 2.
 
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BMC

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Hey guys - Thanks for all the help in choosing the Mantra 102's. I'm psyched to ski them. Unlike that ski, where I knew what I wanted to a ski to perform like because I wanted something that fit my bread and butter style, I'd like another ski that I am much more unsure about.

I want to get better at skiing with a more neutral stance or when I have to lean back, smear the ski, take some speed off - skiing trees, crud (softer crud?), and moderate powder I suppose - using more bumps as kickers - this type of skiing (hopefully this makes sense). I am not awesome at this stuff, I've been harder charger that likes to link big turns on my edges my whole life. But I also am skiing out west predominately now and I fall behind when I'm forced to ski this way. I want to get better at it.

I think I need something softer, wider underfoot (I'm thinking 105-115, but correct me if I am wrong), something more playful that deals much better with less speed - a ski that isnt all about carving great turns. I have zero skis like this. It would also be cool if this could cross over to be a powder ski for me, albeit I am not expecting it to be a ski for huge powder days, unless that ski exists in what I want, then that is great as well.

Not really sure if I should lean towards something heavier for its size or lighter - interested in everyone's opinions on that. Also curious if I should size down from what I would normally ski, length wise, so its more flick-able?

So far from my research here and read Blister it seems like the following might fit, but I could also be off base (in no order):
Black Crows Atris
K2 Mindbender 116c and the 108ti (108's might be stiff for me, hard to tell from reviews)
Blizzard Rustler 11
Dynastar M-Free 108

Open to any assistance in pointing me in the right direction. Also, it doesn't have to be a new ski - for this ski I would prefer something used if possible.
I would have thought the Rustler. Why? Because there’s not a wild difference in house “feel” between Blizzard and Volkl, but the Rustler is most definitely in that powder/playful camp.

I’m sure you’d enjoy pretty much anything going though
 

BMC

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+1 especially with the "big" ski in a quiver, that for me at least gets used quite a bit less than a middle ski.

My two core skis are an Enforcer 88 and 100. If they made a 110 that was simply a wider 100 in every other way, I'd buy a pair tomorrow.

Even though I don't have a single quibble about how my Mindbender 108s ski.
Same. I ski my 88’s and circa 100mm skis regularly. The powder skis are rarely skied, except in a place like Niseko or Alta.
 

BMC

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Skiing it very centered - and using the rear tail more. How you would ski tighter trees or bigger bumps. In my head I feel like I am sitting "back" more, but in reality I should say centered.


Appreciate the continued feedback - correct, I have not skied the Mantra's. I could end up being wrong since I haven't skied them, but the Enforcer 104 wasnt playful enough for me in tight trees and bigger bumps, and being that the Mantra is a stiffer ski, I doubt it will be better for me. I think there are a few factors here, all probably true - You very well might be a better skier than I am and you also might be skiing much more open terrain than I hoping to get a ski for. I don't have the ability to *charge* like I like to charge in open terrain through trees and bumps. Again, maybe I am just not a good enough skier, but I need to ski much more centered in those situations and wipe off speed a lot faster - I want a more playful ski for that, and it would be great if that was also a powder ski.... I think what you're telling me is that if I do decide to do this, I should look to a 112-118 ski, rather than something in the 108 range.

As an aside - buying something used, riding it 4-5 times and selling it at a 100 dollar loss is really no big deal for me, because its easier for me to do that than demo stuff, because of where I live. There's not a great selection here, and when I go to CO or UT I don't love dealing with arranging rental/demo's. A lot of times they don't have the ski in the size I want anyway.


The first bolded is exactly why I took everyone's advice and bought the Mantras - thats what I want out of that ski. The second two bolded parts is exactly why I am asking the question - I'd like to get another ski that is easier (better?) in moguls, trees and powder - something more playful.
I ski powder trees a lot when I can actually get to Niseko and it’s for that very purpose I bought Nordica Enforcer 104’s! I hope my experience differs to yours.

But yes if you found the Enforcer 104 unforgiving in trees etc, the Mantra 102 will be even more so. I’m sure with application and patience you’d be able to make the M102 work for you in those conditions - worth considering if you want to persevere.

How deep is this snow you’re encountering? In past years I’d use my Salomon QLab in trees in say mid shin and less powder - up to knee deep. Deeper and I’d pull out my wider skis. The QLab is a bit like the Mantra 102 - stiff and with a wide flared tail. I got the Enforcer for the more forgiving tail in those conditions. Anyway, my point is if you’re skiing below knee deep you may not need a particularly wide ski - sub 110 will comfortably do it. You’d just want softer flex abd a more forgiving tail
 
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Frank Ricard

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Tbh you should ski the mantras first then see how they work for you.
I thought this forum was here to encourage me to buy too many skis! :ogbiggrin:

Kidding aside - I know its smarter to ski the Mantra's first - but I want another ski, and I am pretty confident that unless everyone is lying to me, they are going to be way to stiff for me to ski centered, . Thats pretty much the opposite of the reason I bought them for, afterall, haha!

I ski powder trees a lot when I can actually get to Niseko and it’s for that very purpose I bought Nordica Enforcer 104’s! I hope my experience differs to yours.

Anyway, my point is if you’re skiing below knee deep you may not need a particularly wide ski - sub 110 will comfortably do it. You’d just want softer flex abd a more forgiving tail
Re: Enforcers - Yeah, I bet you will be happy - but I want something softer in the tail so its easier to ski and more poppy in those conditions and tight trees.

I guess for this ski I am thinking 105ish, but wouldnt be scared to go 112 as it sounds like I wont lose much. I honestly dont know, please correct me if I am wrong... I'm not as good as skier in these conditions, hence an easier ski for when I want to go ski tighter trees. Thats another reason I want to buy something - I'd rather have another pair of ski's with me to mess around with, depending on how I want to ski that day.
 
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dovski

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Surprised this has not come up yet but the Faction Candide 3.0 may be exactly what you want. It is 112 underfoot but still nimble and perfect for the conditions you described. The othe ski to consider is the Enforcer Pro, it has a softer flex profile than the other enforcers and is also quite nimble. If you can demo these skis I would recommend it
 

BMC

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I thought this forum was here to encourage me to buy too many skis! :ogbiggrin:

Kidding aside - I know its smarter to ski the Mantra's first - but I want another ski, and I am pretty confident that unless everyone is lying to me, they are going to be way to stiff for me to ski centered, . Thats pretty much the opposite of the reason I bought them for, afterall, haha!


Re: Enforcers - Yeah, I bet you will be happy - but I want something softer in the tail so its easier to ski and more poppy in those conditions and tight trees.

I guess for this ski I am thinking 105ish, but wouldnt be scared to go 112 as it sounds like I wont lose much. I honestly dont know, please correct me if I am wrong... I'm not as good as skier in these conditions, hence an easier ski for when I want to go ski tighter trees. Thats another reason I want to buy something - I'd rather have another pair of ski's with me to mess around with, depending on how I want to ski that day.
It really depends on the depth of snow you're encountering. While a wider ski can definitely be carved, and get you through bumps, they won’t carve as well as a narrower ski, and will be more cumbersome in bumps. You can’t beat physics. So unless you need a wider ski because of the copious anoumts of snow you're encountering, I’d go no wider than I need to. So, back to my original point of how much snow do you expect to see?

The DPS skis are very forgiving in tight trees. If you’re not seeing really deep snow a Wailer
100 RP may be the way to go? It would ski powder like a much wider, more traditional ski. That’s a very different feeling to the Volkl but maybe that’s what you want?

I can say that I have the Wailer 112 RP as my powder skis now but haven’t been able to use them. They have a very specific use case, which is knee deep and up powder skiing in trees. That’s it. The Enforcer 104 has that use case for knee high and below, and groomers. They’re very different skis but cover big variations in use case in one place that’s very snowy and I spend half my day in trees.
 

Prosper

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I can attest to the Nomad 115 being easy to ski, very fun and much more versatile than the 115 width suggests. It’s great in moguls and trees and carves quite well on soft snow. Its the wide ski in my quiver and I‘ll ski it when there’s 6”+ of fresh or multiple days of a few inches.
The Icelantic Nomad 115 is even more of a powder ski than the Enforcer 110 Free but can still be a daily driver for all soft snow days, doesnt have to be used in deep snow only. Works well say 2" days and up. It is easy in moguls and trees.
Above is what I posted in another thread. I really like my Nomad 115s. They’re quite versatile, nimble, fun and pretty forgiving.
 

tromano

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I thought this forum was here to encourage me to buy too many skis! :ogbiggrin:

Kidding aside - I know its smarter to ski the Mantra's first - but I want another ski, and I am pretty confident that unless everyone is lying to me, they are going to be way to stiff for me to ski centered, . Thats pretty much the opposite of the reason I bought them for, afterall, haha!
We also encourage people to buy the right skis for them. What you learn from how that mantra works for you will help you figure out how to complement that. There's more to building a quiver than just buying a bunch of skis.

If you want a change of pace ski for general soft snow and trees that have a slarvy feel you may consider something from the salomon qst line, more rocker, no metal, very fun skis.
 
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dovski

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Really? Dang, I was hoping(thought) they were stiffer…
Ok so now it is called the Enforcer 115 free. They do several things to lighten the ski one of which is cutting inserts out of the titanal layers, so they still have two layers but think of them as more of a frame then solid sheet. They also have carbon so not a soft ski by any means but a different flex profile than the other enforcers with a softer tip, but still an awesome skis. When I replace my enforcer 110 this and the CT 3.0 are contenders
 
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Prosper

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@Prosper @Ken_R
The Nomad 115: what length do you ski? And how heavy are you, if I may ask? Thanks!
I'm 5'6" 150lbs and ski the 171cm since I like to ski lots of bumps and trees. It's felt plenty stable for me when I've opened it up in bigger spaces and have had no problems w/ flotation.
 

Ken_R

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Frank Ricard

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We also encourage people to buy the right skis for them. What you learn from how that mantra works for you will help you figure out how to complement that. There's more to building a quiver than just buying a bunch of skis.

If you want a change of pace ski for general soft snow and trees that have a slarvy feel you may consider something from the salomon qst line, more rocker, no metal, very fun skis.
Yeah, I get ya, I meant in tongue in cheek.

But I am looking for the opportunity to ski a different ski as well, and it would be nice to do it this year without having to deal with demos/rentals.
 

Ken_R

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Any insight into how the 115's compare to the 105s?

I demoed both in the same length the same day. The 105's are similar just a tad lighter/softer and even easier in the moguls. Not a huge difference really, the 115's just felt a touch more stable. very similar skis.
 

Giotto

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@Ken_R
What I lack in height compared to you, I compensate in weight (damn). Thanks for confirming that the Nomad 115 in 191cm would be fine for me.

Reading your post on a large monitor, I noticed the Nocta in the fine print. Did you ski the Icelantic Saba Pro 117? RR just like the Nocta. I am torn between the N115 and the Saba117.
 

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