RAV4 vs Forester

[murphysf]

Hello - This is a separate thread / application compared to my Impreza vs Crosstrek Thread. The Impreza / Crosstrek Thread was for my wife's work commute with the occasional Tahoe winter Trip.

My 2000 RX300 with 313k miles has been my weekend warrior car. In late April it threw a rod bearing. For those that are familiar with Toyota, it had the 1MZFE engine that was a know sludge engine. I was the second owner and did frequent full synthetic oil changes however time and miles caught up with it.

So I am in the market for a new vehicle as well.

I would prefer a 4 cyl for the gas mileage and am not ready for a hybrid (different thread topic).

I am thinking RAV4 LE AWD but I also want to consider a Subaru so was thinking a Forester Base or maybe a Outback. However the differences between the Forester and Outback don't matter much because I am learning towards NOT getting a Subaru.

The main reason I am learning towards the RAV4 is because it has a conventional automatic transmission compared to a Subaru with a CVT. Note the RAV4 hybrid is a CVT.

I plan on keeping the vehicle at least 15 years and most likely longer till the end of its life. I am thinking in the long run it would be best to avoid a CVT given how long I plan to keep the vehicle.

I know the RAV4 is heavily wrapped in technology / electronics however is it as much of an Appliance as the Forester?

Ideas?

 

[Ogg]

IMO you/re putting way to much weight on the CVT and not enough on the AWD. In the RAV4 the "AWD" only engages below 25 MPH if wheel spin is detected. Otherwise it is FWD the rest of the time. Subaru OTOH has a real full time AWD system. If anything the RAV4 is even more of an appliance than the Forester.

 

[Near Nyquist]

IMO you/re putting way to much weight on the CVT and not enough on the AWD. In the RAV4 the "AWD" only engages below 25 MPH if wheel spin is detected. Otherwise it is FWD the rest of the time. Subaru OTOH has a real full time AWD system. If anything the RAV4 is even more of an appliance than the Forester.

I honestly think you are mistaken

Toyota Dynamic Torque Control

you can lock the differential below 25 mph

above 25 the computer and stability control system take over

yeah it’s not Subie AWD but coming from that RX 300 it will get the job done.

 

[Near Nyquist]

Hello - This is a separate thread / application compared to my Impreza vs Crosstrek Thread. The Impreza / Crosstrek Thread was for my wife's work commute with the occasional Tahoe winter Trip.

My 2000 RX300 with 313k miles has been my weekend warrior car. In late April it threw a rod bearing. For those that are familiar with Toyota, it had the 1MZFE engine that was a know sludge engine. I was the second owner and did frequent full synthetic oil changes however time and miles caught up with it.

So I am in the market for a new vehicle as well.

I would prefer a 4 cyl for the gas mileage and am not ready for a hybrid (different thread topic).

I am thinking RAV4 LE AWD but I also want to consider a Subaru so was thinking a Forester Base or maybe a Outback. However the differences between the Forester and Outback don't matter much because I am learning towards NOT getting a Subaru.

The main reason I am learning towards the RAV4 is because it has a conventional automatic transmission compared to a Subaru with a CVT. Note the RAV4 hybrid is a CVT.

I plan on keeping the vehicle at least 15 years and most likely longer till the end of its life. I am thinking in the long run it would be best to avoid a CVT given how long I plan to keep the vehicle.

I know the RAV4 is heavily wrapped in technology / electronics however is it as much of an Appliance as the Forester?

Ideas?

I currently have my wife in a 2020 RAV4 XLE AWD

at purchase we were looking to replace a 1999 Honda CRV that was totaled out.

The major considerations were
1) Drivetrain Reliability
2) 4WD
3) Drivetrain Reliability

Background:
The car is a backup snow vehicle that realistically will never see snow.
We typically own a vehicle till it explodes with severe service maintenance
It lives in Silicon Valley
we can get 20 years or more out of a chassis

Decision Factors:

The Forester
was under consideration but the reliability factor took it off the table
CVT issues, oil leakage with the Newer FB series engines
Subaru AWD

The Honda CRV
was also considered but again reliability with the engine 1.5l that still has not been worked out.
Honda can build a decent CVT if you change the fluid regularly around 30k
The AWD isn’t Subaru

The RAV4
The AWD isn’t Subaru
Conventional 6speed Automatic
Reliable Motor

Other Factors:
Many reading this need to realize a California car isn’t subject to east coast salt and road conditions
They live their lives year round in a temperate climate possibly venturing into snow every once in a while

So cars tend to not rust out ahead of drivetrain failure while distances driven tend to be much higher causing drivetrain issues to rear their ugly head.

Most of the time when it does snow the highways have chain controls or just shutdown and you can’t get there from here

So for most average users the AWD is just so you can make it through chain control and not have to slap iron

 

[Coach13]

My wife has had a RAV4 AWD and my niece is now in one. They both loved them and both experienced the typical bulletproof Toyota reliability. My wife’s had over 200k on it before she moved onto a new Venza.

 

[murphysf]

I honestly think you are mistaken

Toyota Dynamic Torque Control

you can lock the differential below 25 mph

above 25 the computer and stability control system take over

yeah it’s not Subie AWD but coming from that RX 300 it will get the job done.

FWIW the 2000 RX300 AWD worked as follows - RX300 features an integrated transfer case and a viscous center differential that provides a 50/50 front-to-rear power split. The system requires no activation by the driver. If slippage occurs at the front or the rear, the viscous center differential automatically and transparently directs power to the wheels with the most traction.

I ran 3PMSF tires on it and it drove like it was untouchable. I remember last season coming home in a storm and 80 was bad with traffic. I got off 80 and onto 20 at Yuba pass and then drove what seemed like backroads. 20 to 49 back to 80 (Auburn). It took a little over an hour and at first I took it slow but gradually built confidence and slowly increased speed every 10 or so minutes. I think I ended up at around a top speed of 40 mph and never did I feel unstable.

 

[snwbrdr]

I honestly think you are mistaken

Toyota Dynamic Torque Control

you can lock the differential below 25 mph

above 25 the computer and stability control system take over

yeah it’s not Subie AWD but coming from that RX 300 it will get the job done.

the 2019+ RAV4 got rid of the AWD lock button, in favor of the multi-terrain select feature.

 

[snwbrdr]

early 1MZ's were not a sludge engine. Later 1MZ's became a sludge engine when Toyota upped the operating temperature to squeeze out a little more efficiency.

Seriously consider an hybrid. it's hard to ignore the 40 mpg on the RAV4, and even more when driving around the bay area with high traffic volume.

Just got back from Pinnacles NP to OC, on my HiHy AWD in 1/2 tank.

Went through the soft sandy road at Joshua Tree NP (Geological Tour road) with no issues, without hitting the "Trail" button

and the eCVT isn't a real CVT, it's a planetary gearset controlled by MG1, instead of a belt system), but in the end, behaves like a CVT. Requires Toyota World Standard fluid, not a CVT fluid

 

[Tom K.]

Keeping it forever seems to be priority number one.

Toyota.

Done.

 

[lisamamot]

Keeping it forever seems to be priority number one.

Toyota.

Done.

That is what I thought when we bought my 2015 Toyota Highlander XLE brand spanking new in Dec 2014; up until a few years ago, I would have sworn by it. It now has 150,000 miles on it and the electrical system has been going wonky the last few years. It started with a blown fuse that lost us all our exterior lights while on a road trip a few years ago, and moved onto a randomly rebooting radio/navigation system, the USB/cigarette lighter have fluctuating power, and now over the last couple of weeks the front door locks are doing something funky and randomly refusing to lock/unlock - my research on the door issue points at another fuse. I have to manually lock the front passenger door from the inside otherwise the remote lock won't work. Often when I return to the car, the driver's door refuses to unlock (beeps several times when I hit unlock); a couple times I have had to open the back door ,and lean through the front seats to manually open the driver's door from the inside. I could likely pop the actual key out of the remote to open the door from the outside, but that is a task in itself. Yeesh, I thought I would drive this car for 200,000+ miles worry free, and now I am seriously considering replacing it. Quite frustrating.

 

[snwbrdr]

Subaru's are direct injection only (except the BRZ), so you're likely going to have costly intake valve deposit cleaning.

The Rav4 A25A will have Toyota's D4-S system (which the BRZ has also), which has both direct injection AND port injection, so intake valve deposits will likely won't occur.

Just another thing to consider for long term ownership

But, the A25A engine requires 0w-16 oil, which isn't as common to find on auto parts store shelves right now... sure you can sub in 0w20, but Toyota advises to go back to 0w16 at the next oil change. (which a 1 qt bottle is $7 and change at the dealership that I bought my Highlander Hybrid)

 

[Ogg]

Subaru's are direct injection only (except the BRZ), so you're likely going to have costly intake valve deposit cleaning.

The Rav4 A25A will have Toyota's D4-S system (which the BRZ has also), which has both direct injection AND port injection, so intake valve deposits will likely won't occur.

Just another thing to consider for long term ownership

But, the A25A engine requires 0w-16 oil, which isn't as common to find on auto parts store shelves right now... sure you can sub in 0w20, but Toyota advises to go back to 0w16 at the next oil change. (which a 1 qt bottle is $7 and change at the dealership that I bought my Highlander Hybrid)

0w16? Sounds like marketing BS to drive sales to the dealer. The super thin oil they use in new cars is mainly for emissions and economy and is not necessarily the best for your engine long term. Often the same engine will spec different oil in the US than other places.

 

[snwbrdr]

0w16? Sounds like marketing BS to drive sales to the dealer. The super thin oil they use in new cars is mainly for emissions and economy and is not necessarily the best for your engine long term. Often the same engine will spec different oil in the US than other places.

Toyota makes up for it, with having Exxon-Mobil put a robust Extreme Pressure/Anti-wear additive package in the Toyota oil.

I wouldn't use Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w16, because their EP/AW additive package is no where near Toyota's specifications.

It has tons of Molybdenum in the oil and a healthy dose of Boron in the additive package.

PLus, you know the Japanese don't take risks unless they can prove its durability and reliability.

 

[François Pugh]

Subaru's are direct injection only (except the BRZ), so you're likely going to have costly intake valve deposit cleaning.

The Rav4 A25A will have Toyota's D4-S system (which the BRZ has also), which has both direct injection AND port injection, so intake valve deposits will likely won't occur.

Just another thing to consider for long term ownership

But, the A25A engine requires 0w-16 oil, which isn't as common to find on auto parts store shelves right now... sure you can sub in 0w20, but Toyota advises to go back to 0w16 at the next oil change. (which a 1 qt bottle is $7 and change at the dealership that I bought my Highlander Hybrid)

Sounds like you have a (or several) bad ground. If it were my car I would get a shop diagram and check all the grounds. Of if you had a trusted mechanic, it would be a good idea for him to do it at this time.