Realities of Female Guiding

[Eleeski]

How do you select guides or instructors? My snow ski instructors have been randomly assigned by the resort - and all male. All good as well. Usually the family is in the lesson. I wonder if the women in the group would appreciate a female instructor.

I specifically chose a female flight instructor. I was not having great luck with the word of mouth contacts. The 99s are a very active group of female pilots and their website had the best local information and reviews of their instructors. I found a competent flight instructor through that resource.

Eric

 

[Analisa]

@Eleeski most people book with an outfitter and one of their contracted guides is scheduled on the course. Senior guides have more influence over where they’re assigned to work. But clients can also make requests. If you click with a guide, you can ask that they’re staffed for other climbs you’re interested in or book with them for private guiding.

 

[Slim]

If at all possible, our next family guided backcountry ski tour we do, I’d like to go with a female guide. I think can only be positive for my daughters to see “someone like them” out there doing that kind of stuff, making it easier for them to form a self image of themselves as belonging in the outdoors and being capable of doing such things.

 

[Slim]

Ski instructors is a bit harder, as they are typically not listed, but for private lessons you can always ask for a certain instructor, or request a women or man in general. I have also heard that (sometimes) instructors get paid more if they are requested by name.

In my experience, most guiding companies list most of their guides, so you can find out whether they are men or women, and what qualifications they have. Again, for a group thing you are likely stuck with their assigned person, but for private bookings you can always ask for a specific person.

AMGA website has a search function for guides too, although it is pretty poor.

https://amga.com/hire-a-guide/?page...e&qfKey=a47571543b7d38afeaacc3956f193b5a_5576

 

[Pequenita]

I think can only be positive for my daughters to see “someone like them” out there doing that kind of stuff, making it easier for them to form a self image of themselves as belonging in the outdoors and being capable of doing such things.

Yes. This is so important. And it chips away at preconceived notions they may have unconsciously picked up.

The first few people serving in unexpected capacities tend to have a bit of a disrupter attitude and thick skin. If you find a disrupter that is also empathetic, that’s a potential role model.

 

[karlo]

our next family guided backcountry ski tour we do, I’d like to go with a female guide. I think can only be positive for my daughters to see “someone like them” out there doing that kind of stuff,

Not easy, as the OP's referenced article points out. Not many women guides, ones that are highly experienced. Going backcountry in Hakuba? I can recommend a woman guide, but she's a rider, not a skier; not a Mountain guide, but a guide nevertheless. Also, Powderquest has a women only tour, if your daughters are old enough, led by Jess McMillan.

Ski instructors is a bit harder, as they are typically not listed, but for private lessons you can always ask for a certain instructor, or request a women or man in general.

If you don't know who to ask for, it's very tough to end up with someone excellent at a ski school, male or female. Then, I think one is better off going to a non-traditional "ski school", like Extremely Canadian, and ask for a woman coach. Then there's Chris Davenport's Ski with the Stars offers the opportunity to ski and clinic with Wendy Fischer; before Wendy, it was Ingrid Backstrom! Then, as @James shared, there's Giulia at Powder Extreme in Verbier; they got back to me and point out they have other women freeskiers on staff; I'm holding out for Giulia, info and videos found here,

https://www.google.com/search?nfpr=...J6N3kAhWimeAKHToOD7kQBQgsKAA&biw=831&bih=1256

That said, pro skiers don't necessarily make best instructors. But, they do have much to share and will open our daughters eyes to another world.

 

[DanoT]

A guide I know is an industrial level avy mitigation expert, developing strategies for securing train lines, power plants, other infrastructure. If both are qualified, he prefers the woman. From his experience, they make sounder risk/benefit decisions.

You may find this hard to believe but Kevin O'Leary, Venture Capitalist and one of the stars of Shark Tank and Dragon's Den in Canada, agrees with the above.

In a recent Youtube video interview O'Leary stated that with many of the companies that he owns he has found woman mangers have consistently produced better long term financial results in the divisions or departments that are managed by women vs men. O'Leary attributes the difference to men having more of a charge ahead get it done nature compared to women who are more willing to take the time to assess risks and possible outcomes resulting in better decision making.

I think we need more women business leaders and certainly it wouldn't hurt to get rid of a lot of male political leaders who have been ego driven and sexist.

 

[Analisa]

Not easy, as the OP's referenced article points out. Not many women guides, ones that are highly experienced.

That might be true for the top tier of guiding, but there still enough women working in the field to book with one if that's your preference. The US is one of the few countries that doesn't require a certification to guide, and when they say that the IFMGA allows guides to work internationally, it's not entirely true. I have friends without even a single AMGA cert who have guided on Everest and Elbrus over the past 2 summers (I believe they're just not allowed to be lead guides, but don't quote me on that). Many outfitters create their own trainings too - I have another friend that's doing her AMGA rock guide course next week, but when she started in the industry, they just made sure she had basic belay and crevasse rescue skills & AIARE 1 and trained her from there before setting her off to guide on Baker and Shuksan. IFMGA costs $50k in training and travel expenses, and then you also have to build your personal climbing/skiing resume. Most of the guides I know don't have AMGA certs, but they've still got credentials that, I believe, make them incredibly trustworthy, like having an AIARE 3/certified to teach AIARE 1-2, or working as avalanche forecasters. I think that's especially true if you're talking about a family-friendly ski trip vs. a remote/high altitude/highly technical expedition.

@Slim , if your fam ever ends up in WA or Whistler/southern BC, I'd be happy to pass on some recs. Also, I'd put the Inspiring Girls Expeditions on your radar - they're free wilderness science expeditions and I climb & ski with a handful of alumni from Girls on Ice who found it to be a particularly powerful experience.

 

[Slim]

“IFMGA guides can work internationally” refers mainly to the Alps. Most alpine countries have laws that restrict climbing and mountaineering (lead)guiding to licensed IFMGA mountain guides.
Backcountry Ski guiding regulation is a little more confusing, Any IFMGA mountain guide can guide those in any alpine country, and on any trip.
Each country or even different states have varying rules about who else can guide backcountry skiing. Typically though, it means you have to be licensed by that country, and often has restrictions like no-glaciated terrain, roped climinbg or no overnights trips (all of which can be fairly common Alps)

 

[Slim]

For our family’s needs, there are plenty of female guides out there, it’s just a matter of whether they would be available on the dates we want.

Also, as @Analisa mentions, skiing with a 9 and 12 year olds(their ages this coming winter), does not demand the technical rope and climbing skills that are a large part of the AMGA ski guide training and certification.

@karlo, for me and (almost) everyone else, the fact that a AMGA ski guide is a splitboardr shouldn’t matter (unless you are booking a ski technique trip or want to go side country at Alta ). The exam as are the same and groups are mixed, so the splitboarders taking the course and exams have to keep up to the skiers. If they can do that, there is no way they will be slowing down a weekend warrior.

On the other hand, there is no other formal training and certification that includes managing guest safety in a backcountry ski setting, so in that respect, a AMGA skiguide is still my preferred choice.

 

[François Pugh]

As the father of two daughters, the content of this article pisses me off. It (who gets chosen for what) should depend on the guide's abilities and qualifications, not the guide's sex.

 

[slowrider]

As the father of two daughters, the content of this article pisses me off. It (who gets chosen for what) should depend on the guide's abilities and qualifications, not the guide's sex.

Unfortunately some things never change.

 

[karlo]

Inspiring Girls Expeditions

Wish I had know about that for my daughter. Now, she has aged out,
"You must be 16 or 17 on June 1, 2018."
http://www.inspiringgirls.org/cascades

9 and 12 year olds

Young. Plenty of time...not really.

 

[Pequenita]

As the father of two daughters, the content of this article pisses me off. It (who gets chosen for what) should depend on the guide's abilities and qualifications, not the guide's sex.

This is why "hiring for fit" -- in any industry -- is actually not something to aspire to. It sounds benign and probably started with good intentions because it's usually conveyed in a way to mean "we like hanging out with each other even after work," but the way it plays out is that employers wind up hiring people who are just like the people who are already employed because they fit the organizational "culture." Humans also tend to mentor people who remind us of ourselves, which begets similar representation problems.

 

[Scruffy]

As the father of two daughters, the content of this article pisses me off. It (who gets chosen for what) should depend on the guide's abilities and qualifications, not the guide's sex.

Change is always slow, and some "industries" are more recalcitrant than others, and sometimes we slide backwards, but overall I've seen great progress for "equalization" within my lifetime. The article is proof of that. I would tell my daughters to not be discouraged, but to get involved and to initiate change from within established male dominated organizations once you've established yourself, or to setout and create organizations and networks of your own and prove to the world that it can be done. Easier said than done? sure, but worth it.

 

[Choucas]

I've had several enjoyable weeks of skiing with a female IFGMA guide. I'd go with her again in a heartbeat.

 

[L&AirC]

We have evolved and survived because of our abilities to find patterns and categorize things - “That happened because of this just like last time so don’t do that again”. Just because were thriving, doesn’t mean that switch gets flipped off and we stop doing this. We are hardwired and can’t help ourselves. So when something goes well or bad, we look at the categories involved and apply them to the patterns.

I’ve never gone on a hike or any other sort of trip that involved needing a guide (20 years in the Marines got that out of my system ) but take a scenario on any guided tour that has a mishap; they are late getting to a food drop, so the staff leaves it and when the tour group shows up a bear is eating it. They now have to go an entire day without food and won’t have any until the next food stop.

Let’s pretend there are three separate tours led by three different guides, all with the same certs and experience. One is a woman from Canada, one a man from France and one a man from the US. There are 9 clients evenly divided the same way as the guides, so each group has a client from France (male), Canada (female) and the US (male), so three groups with a guide and three clients.

Assuming everyone in the group is able to keep up with the guide and no one is lagging behind, do you see the nine clients placing blame (or not) differently based on their sex, where the are from and who is the guide?

 

[Tricia]

I was actually searching for something else and stumbled upon this thread.
Great read. Not sure how I missed it the first time around.

 

[markojp]

Anyone ever had Stephanie as their JH steep and deep camp coach? She's an old friend and did our L3 together. I can't imagine she wouldn't be pretty fun to have as a coach/guide. Another colleague of mine is a divisional clinic leader for both alpine and teley.. . Awesome clinician. I'd highly recommend her to anyone looking to improve their skills, and no, it's not likely you'll out ski her.

 

[jt10000]

"Biased" is a dirty word and such a derogatory thing to be accused of, but I don't think it should be. The vast, vast majority of us are biased. I think we end up trying to assuage ourselves that we're good and fair people than working towards improvement. Likewise, we miss conversations within marginalized groups...

THIS.

I really am used to looking past gender.

I hope you mean only in your own choices but not in how you look at the workplace (or society in gender) in general. "Not seeing gender" is part of the reason so many men don't notice (or claim not to notice) a lot of misogyny. This piece from the article really jumps out:

After posting the above and more, Kerr received responses from fellow guides, most male and many surprised to hear this was even an issue.

Frankly, I think we should try to see gender more in the workplace: woman behave differently in many ways because they have been *forced* to do so - speaking more timidly, being more deferential. Identical behavior by men and women (in general) may reflect very different levels of competence. Similarly, I'd posit that identical resumes in a male-dominated field would suggest that a woman is actually likely (in general - this is a gross generalization) to be more competent than a man given the obstacles she has faced.