Really good Sidewall cutter?

[Marker]

Race Place, the online shop run by Scott and Eric Holmer sells a short panzer file and 7 degree guide called the “Plane Beast”. Used to be called the Side of the Beast, I think.

My kids used them when they were younger teens, simple, pretty effective, and reasonable.

I think FKS and others market essentially the same thing.

I use a Side of the Beast and it works well but I find you need to be patient about planeing off a new ski with a fresh sidewall, especially if there is titanal near the top sheet.

 

[KingGrump]

Where are you guys finding 83 degree edge guides?
I see a few 85 degree guides...
If I'm tuning my edges to 88 degrees, would a panzer in an 85 degree guide take off enough sidewall?

There are many ways to get a higher angle with regard to the guide.

The easiest way is the Beast line of product @Muleski mentioned up thread.

The Plane Beast - a dedicated 7° guide for side wall work.

That is a very small hand in that pic. Unit is actually a lot smaller than I would like. The fit and finish is lacking. Took about 15 minute of hand work to get it not to feel harsh in my hand.

Few years back, Beast came out with a 7° plate for their Side of Beast edge guide. I am not a fan of the Beast guide. It looks like a real pain to change over the angle plate.

Side of Beast.




If you are using a SVST side edge guide, you can get a 3° shim for it to get a higher cutting angle.

SVST edge Guide & shim.


Guide and shim set up with a panzer.



Don't have any of the above and too cheap to spring to new tools?
Find a ahh-stick (tongue depressor), popsicle stick or emery board (don't let your wife know) and jury rig your very own red-neck side wall guide.



Key is to secure the spring clamp tip pass the ahh-stick.
End view of the red-neck side wall guide set up. Notice the higher angle of the panzer relative to the existing 3° guide.



Or you can do what I do when I am in a hurry. I clamp the panzer to the usual 3° guide. Roll my hand over a slight bit to get a higher cutting angle on the sidewall. Voila, another job well done with minimal fuss.

The sidewall angle does not have to be exact. So long it is steeper than the side edge angle. It will be fine.
The more important aspect is the sidewall removal is completed to the top of the side edge. Including the existing bottom titanal layer as not to foul the stone/file/grinding wheel.

 

[gwat]

^good info!
I love the tongue depressor option

So what is the advantage of the dedicated planers? Panzer in a guide seems like a very simple and effective way to strip sidewalls.

 

[Snuckerpooks]

So what is the advantage of the dedicated planers? Panzer in a guide seems like a very simple and effective way to strip sidewalls.

Same! I'm very interested in the advantages. I use a Swix planar that looks like a regular guide but looking at the setup makes me curious. I can't count how many times I've gotten chatter when pulling the sidewall.

 

[KingGrump]

So what is the advantage of the dedicated planers? Panzer in a guide seems like a very simple and effective way to strip sidewalls.

Dedicated sideway cutters are much faster and allow for different finished sidewall profiles. Usually I'll use the sidewall cutter and panzer at the beginning of the season. Touch up with the panzer through out the season.

Various sidewall profile with a sidewall cutter.

Sidewall cutter blade for different finish profiles.

Same! I'm very interested in the advantages. I use a Swix planar that looks like a regular guide but looking at the setup makes me curious. I can't count how many times I've gotten chatter when pulling the sidewall.

There are many sidewall planer on the market. The lower cost ones (~$50) are mostly plastic. The higher price ones (~$150) are set up more like edge guides. Then there is the electric Carrot (~%1.5K). Lots of sidewall for that one.

Low cost sidewall wall cutter.

Higher cost sidewall cutter.

Both will perform the same task within limitations.

Proper sidewall cutting is very similar to edge sharpening with a file. It's a magic combination of tool, material being cut and hand. Whether using a sidewall cutter or a file (on the steel edge), I like to see the swarf (cuttings) to be in a curl. (see pic #2 above).

If the tool chatters, skips or chunks. Usually there is an issue with the depth of cut, too much downward pressure or feed rate too high. Sometimes it's a combination of all the above. Start with a lighter cut to get the feel of tool is recommended.

I'll usually start the sidewall prep with a sidewall cutter to remove most of the material and finish with the panzer. The panzer is very helpful in smoothing out the irregularities. Especially on skis with two sheets of metal. The tips and tails on those skis are tough to get to with a sidewall cutter.

 

[Dave Marshak]

I see now that ignoring proper sidewall profiles was why my racing career ended without any World Cup podiums.

dm

 

[mdf]

My experience is that different tools work best on different skis. On some skis my sidewall cutter worked easily and gave great results. On others I never could get it adjusted right and switched to the high-angle panzer. And as grump noted, sometimes a tool works well for most of the edge but not the tip or tail.

I'm sure @KingGrump has 100's of times as many hours using hand tools as I do, and accordingly has a much better feel for what each tool is doing.

Sidewall cutting is the most frustrating and variable part of tuning, in my experience. It's best to have options.

When you think you have it right, run a diamond stone at the tuning angle for a pass along the ski. Look for sidewall-colored deposits on the stone.

 

[Snuckerpooks]

There are many sidewall planer on the market. The lower cost ones (~$50) are mostly plastic. The higher price ones (~$150) are set up more like edge guides. Then there is the electric Carrot (~%1.5K). Lots of sidewall for that one.

Low cost sidewall wall cutter.



Higher cost sidewall cutter.







Both will perform the same task within limitations.

Proper sidewall cutting is very similar to edge sharpening with a file. It's a magic combination of tool, material being cut and hand. Whether using a sidewall cutter or a file (on the steel edge), I like to see the swarf (cuttings) to be in a curl. (see pic #2 above).

If the tool chatters, skips or chunks. Usually there is an issue with the depth of cut, too much downward pressure or feed rate too high. Sometimes it's a combination of all the above. Start with a lighter cut to get the feel of tool is recommended.

I'll usually start the sidewall prep with a sidewall cutter to remove most of the material and finish with the panzer. The panzer is very helpful in smoothing out the irregularities. Especially on skis with two sheets of metal. The tips and tails on those skis are tough to get to with a sidewall cutter.

Interesting looking at the different profiles. I just lumped them together with the circle cut being a laminated ski and the square being for capped skis. It isn't that cut and dry.

This is the one that I have. Maybe it's a Japan only thing? Never seen it on American sites.

I'll be sure to make lighter passes as to prevent chatter. Thanks for the tip! Or maybe look at a file to smooth everything out too!