Recommend a powder ski for an ex-racer

[newfydog]

Jamey-- I'm yet another ex New England college racer type, live just down the road from Bachelor. I ski racing skis frequently, but have various big powder skis, which I hate on groomers. Anyone who says some fat ski carves like a GS race ski hasn't been on a GS race ski for sometime.

That said, one thing to remember about powder skis is that while a carving ski breaks down and is best when new and well tuned, a used powder ski is probably still pretty good. They have not been driven hard on that much icy stuff. I just picked up very cheap some old demo Atomic Automatic 102's, to give me a powder ski which is a bit narrower.. I skied a day of variable and slabby powder off the summit of Bachelor with icy groomers to the bottom and loved the skis. Made any of the powder types great and didn't make me puke carving on the firm stuff. Get your self something, and don't feel you need to spend a lot on it. You'll have some fun.

 

[Marker]

According to Blister reviews, the Fischer Ranger FR series has made them softer and more accessible, while the Ranger Ti series has gone stiffer and more demanding. Mine are the older 115 XTi, perfect for a Clyde like me. The 102 FR has gotten a lotta love since it came out and may suit your racing style.

 

[silverback]

I've skied Hood and Bachelor a lot (1500+ days) and my son is 5'7" 125lbs so I might have some insight.

Ideally you should try to get a few different shapes to see what suits you. ON3p skis are designed with your conditions in mind and I love my Billy Goats. That being said, ON3p's design philosophy is that groomers are to get between off-piste skiing areas or to the lift. It takes some soul searching to give up carving groomers. Are you willing to back off the tip pressure some? If yes to both, try a Billy Goat or Wren.

Heavy skis work better in the heavy snow that is skied out early but I'm sure there are exceptions. How much do you want a nimble tree ski for NW at bachelor vs. a crud charger for cut-up snow off Express at Meadows?

For me, I like to buy several skis (used) and play around a number of times on them to figure out what I want. I sell what isn't suiting me. There isn't a perfect answer to your question.

My son skis 174 MX98's and Line Pescados but we are in Utah. In Oregon, I'd look for a fast, crud-buster. My list might include:

177 Stormrider 105
179 Confession
173 BMX 105
179 Billy Goat

 

[Sbum02030]

I'm like you except bigger, 5'11", 160-165 in gear. Also close to you in age as well being under 30.

I raced FIS FWIW and found that while I like skis that can be handled like a GS ski in crud and pow, it can be a LOT of work if the terrain gets narrow or bumped up. Definitely take that into consideration because you're likely going to have to compromise between missile-like crud busting but fun in the trees and narrower terrain.

Also take into consideration a lot of wider skis (especially powder skis) like to be skied with a more neutral stance and that driving the tips like you do with race skis won't necessarily mesh with them. If you want a ski you can drive you'll want to look for ones with a more traditional mounting point, not a newer more centered one.

I've skied skis like the Line Mr. Pollard's Opus, Blizzard Peacemaker, ON3P Vicik, ON3P Billy Goat (189), ON3P Steeple 102, and Blizzard Gunsmoke. Out of all of them, only the Vicik liked the tips to be driven. Unfortunately I sold them as they weren't much fun where I was skiing them.

For skis that should be skied with a more neutral stance, I loved the Peacemaker but definitely wanted a longer length than 186 when I was out west. If I was your size it may have been different but they got overpowered at the higher speeds in crud. I had a pretty epic blowup at JH a few years back on them because of this.

I never really meshed with the BG and sold them after a season. A lot of people love them, I didn't. I found they didn't like having the tips driven like a race ski.

The Steeples are my AT setup and are great but they're not what you're looking for.

The Opus and Gunsmoke were good but again, a more neutral stance was required and they both got overpowered on more chopped up terrain when going fast. However, I skied the Gunsmoke in a 186 model and the 192 model was supposedly built differently. They don't make the Gunsmoke anymore but the Rustler 11 is supposed to be an improvement from everyone I've talked to.

After all that, I found that I love the Dynastar Factory line of skis and built my quiver around them.

I have:

2x Pro Riders (105mm under foot, 192cm in length with a Ti backbone and a 27m radius) They haul ass and take no prisoners but are a ton of work if you need to ski them in something narrow for an extended period of time. When people say they have an all-mountain ski that skis like a GS ski, they're talking about something like this. It's heavy, it's long, and it is stiff.Also, they sink like a rock in deeper snow which isn't surprising. These skis are rather hard to come by since they don't sell super well in the US so if anyone is looking for a pair, good luck.

1x Legend Factory (115mm under foot, 190cm in length) They don't have a metal backbone but ski like the Cham series from a few years ago. They're definitely built with speed in mind and have very little tail rocker. They were made in a 180cm version as well as 190cm one. I'd say they're a slightly mellower and fatter version of the Pro Rider. I more or less picked these up for a fat pow touring ski that I'll mount with a CAST setup. They haven't seen a lot of use unfortunately but they weren't making the ski anymore so I snagged one while I could.

1x Proto Factory (116mm under foot, 189cm in "official" length but measures at a 186cm) I haven't skied the Proto yet but everyone seems to say it has the Dynastar race backbone but in a more modern shape.I picked these up for days where the Pro Riders are just too much work or the terrain isn't friendly to a 190cm pow board. I'm really excited to ski these next year.

I've never skied Bachelor or any Sierra Cement-type mountains so take my recommendation with a big grain of salt.

But given your weight and desires I'd look at the Legend x106 for a ski that can handle it all. People say it's a much friendlier version of the Pro Riders (smaller turn radius, length options besides 192cm, no metal core, some tail rocker) but still retains much of what the Factory line offers. They will likely ski pow, groomers, and crud with zero problems. I'll probably replace my Steeples with these when the time comes.

If you can get true all-mountain ski and a true powder ski I'd recommend the Proto Factory/Proto Menace and x106. The Proto Menace now comes in a 180cm as well as 189 which should straight measure ~ 176cm.

That'll give you a playful option on the deeper days as well as a well-rounded option for those between storm days.

 

[James]

How about the Cochise? Looks like a fat Bonafide. Pretty traditional shape.

This year's 98mm twin tip Dynastar Slicer is next years Menace. Don't know about that Proto.

 

[cantunamunch]

I've skied the regular '20 Menace and it is bouncy - in a fun in Utah way but waaaay too bouncy for any true cement-level snow. I would not recommend it for coastal skiers unless it was part of a 5+SQ.

I'm guessing the Proto is waaaay different from the regular?

 

[Sbum02030]

I've skied the regular '20 Menace and it is bouncy - in a fun in Utah way but waaaay too bouncy for any true cement-level snow. I would not recommend it for coastal skiers unless it was part of a 5+SQ.

I'm guessing the Proto is waaaay different from the regular?

Proto is same ski as the Menace Factory, just made in their French race factory vs. the Spanish one w/ the regular Legend line.

Design of the ski doesn't change, but perhaps the build did as a result.

Over on TGR someone said the Menace feels more playful, is lighter, etc. which may be true or may just be their own opinion.

 

[François Pugh]

Looking for a ski recommendation to make powder days fun and help bust through choppy conditions. I'm tired of getting beaten up on my race boards on ungroomed terrain.

Uses: trees and powder days

Primary Location: Mt Bachelor and Mt Hood (Oregon)

History: I grew up skiing on the east coast and raced in college. Moved west after grad school and experienced my first powder day last year. I've been muscling through on my SL boards, but bit the bullet and demoed a pair of 172cm Rossi Soul 7 HDs on a recent trip with a few feet of fresh snow. For the first time, I wasn't miserable at the end of each run and wishing for ice instead.

Overall, I enjoyed the Soul 7s: lightweight, decent float, good maneuverability, ok edge hold getting back to the lift, a little chattery (maybe a bit longer would have been better?)

Stats: 5'7" 135lbs male

Will be keeping my SL and GS skis for non-powder days

Thanks for the help

In my mind, something 105-115mm sounded about right as I still only get a handful of powder days per season and they could double as crud busters. Then again, this was my first time skiing something over 70mm in over 10 years so my perspective may be a bit warped. Also, the concept of a fully rockered ski sounds extremely squirley on anything but deep powder, but maybe I just need to try one (the 100eight caught my eye in that category). Naturally, with a racing background, something with a bit more bite catches my attention.

The Rossi's were a spontaneous demo after a day in knee deep powder on my SL boards so my options were limited, but they were still such a dramatic improvement so I'm in the market. I'm hoping to demo a few more before the season ends then keep an eye out on the used market in the offseason.

From my experience, the 100 eight in the 2nd longest length would be a good choice, given it's for a quiver spot, and not an only ski. It is great in deep snow, and will not complain if you ski it at high speed on groomers. It won't make high-g race turns on groomers and it will take a lot longer to stop than a race ski, but it will arc well enough, so long as you don't have to turn tight enough at SG+ speeds to make any gates.

Another ski that would do you well is the Bonafide, again at 2nd longest length. The old one might have been a "charger", but the new one isn't. I found that with the smaller turn radius of the new model, it is downright scary at high speeds; it won't edge lock into an arc in a long radius turn, preferring to smear at low tipping angles and dig into a much too tight turn to hold at high tipping angles (only a problem at high speeds). At reasonable speeds though, it can make satisfying high-g turns (it can make harder turns than the Volkl 100-8 on the groomed).

I weighed 150 lbs when I tried those skis, weigh 140 lbs now, and figure the length would still be good for a 135 lb high speed (relative to turn size) skier.

 

[cantunamunch]

From my experience,

We need to get you on one of the new flax top Salomon QST 106s.

 

[Kevin Monahan]

I'm like you except bigger, 5'11", 160-165 in gear. Also close to you in age as well being under 30.

I raced FIS FWIW and found that while I like skis that can be handled like a GS ski in crud and pow, it can be a LOT of work if the terrain gets narrow or bumped up. Definitely take that into consideration because you're likely going to have to compromise between missile-like crud busting but fun in the trees and narrower terrain.

Also take into consideration a lot of wider skis (especially powder skis) like to be skied with a more neutral stance and that driving the tips like you do with race skis won't necessarily mesh with them. If you want a ski you can drive you'll want to look for ones with a more traditional mounting point, not a newer more centered one.

I've skied skis like the Line Mr. Pollard's Opus, Blizzard Peacemaker, ON3P Vicik, ON3P Billy Goat (189), ON3P Steeple 102, and Blizzard Gunsmoke. Out of all of them, only the Vicik liked the tips to be driven. Unfortunately I sold them as they weren't much fun where I was skiing them.

For skis that should be skied with a more neutral stance, I loved the Peacemaker but definitely wanted a longer length than 186 when I was out west. If I was your size it may have been different but they got overpowered at the higher speeds in crud. I had a pretty epic blowup at JH a few years back on them because of this.

I never really meshed with the BG and sold them after a season. A lot of people love them, I didn't. I found they didn't like having the tips driven like a race ski.

The Steeples are my AT setup and are great but they're not what you're looking for.

The Opus and Gunsmoke were good but again, a more neutral stance was required and they both got overpowered on more chopped up terrain when going fast. However, I skied the Gunsmoke in a 186 model and the 192 model was supposedly built differently. They don't make the Gunsmoke anymore but the Rustler 11 is supposed to be an improvement from everyone I've talked to.

After all that, I found that I love the Dynastar Factory line of skis and built my quiver around them.

I have:

2x Pro Riders (105mm under foot, 192cm in length with a Ti backbone and a 27m radius) They haul ass and take no prisoners but are a ton of work if you need to ski them in something narrow for an extended period of time. When people say they have an all-mountain ski that skis like a GS ski, they're talking about something like this. It's heavy, it's long, and it is stiff.Also, they sink like a rock in deeper snow which isn't surprising. These skis are rather hard to come by since they don't sell super well in the US so if anyone is looking for a pair, good luck.

1x Legend Factory (115mm under foot, 190cm in length) They don't have a metal backbone but ski like the Cham series from a few years ago. They're definitely built with speed in mind and have very little tail rocker. They were made in a 180cm version as well as 190cm one. I'd say they're a slightly mellower and fatter version of the Pro Rider. I more or less picked these up for a fat pow touring ski that I'll mount with a CAST setup. They haven't seen a lot of use unfortunately but they weren't making the ski anymore so I snagged one while I could.

1x Proto Factory (116mm under foot, 189cm in "official" length but measures at a 186cm) I haven't skied the Proto yet but everyone seems to say it has the Dynastar race backbone but in a more modern shape.I picked these up for days where the Pro Riders are just too much work or the terrain isn't friendly to a 190cm pow board. I'm really excited to ski these next year.

I've never skied Bachelor or any Sierra Cement-type mountains so take my recommendation with a big grain of salt.

But given your weight and desires I'd look at the Legend x106 for a ski that can handle it all. People say it's a much friendlier version of the Pro Riders (smaller turn radius, length options besides 192cm, no metal core, some tail rocker) but still retains much of what the Factory line offers. They will likely ski pow, groomers, and crud with zero problems. I'll probably replace my Steeples with these when the time comes.

If you can get true all-mountain ski and a true powder ski I'd recommend the Proto Factory/Proto Menace and x106. The Proto Menace now comes in a 180cm as well as 189 which should straight measure ~ 176cm.

That'll give you a playful option on the deeper days as well as a well-rounded option for those between storm days.

 

[Kevin Monahan]

i really appreciate this discussion - i posted something similar awhile back on TGR (i'm heavier and less race exp) and really wound up with less than helpful info

sbum - i appreciated the dynastar comments - i demoed a few dynastars over the years (mostly the cham) and could never quiet figure out why anyone liked them - they are very popular where is ski maybe i should try the legend series

when i was making a similar decision as the OP i had demoed the BC Corvus in Big Sky, it's a 108 mm underfoot with metal - in BS it's a great ski, but if you really have a powder day it's great for skiing the old snow underneath the powder something i didn't really understand when i bot it - so i'm on the hunt for a better solution, i'm torn between getting a similar waisted 105+ ski like the mindbender 108 which i hear is great in deep pow and stable when the pow is gone or blizzard rustler r11 which sounds similar, or getting a pure pow focused ski that would be point and shoot for me, like blizzard spur

 

[Scotty I.]

Well, are you thoroughly confused yet?
If I were you, I would take up @Ron on his offer to work with you.
Reason #1: He lives in Steamboat and probably skis more powder days than anybody on this blog.
2) He is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to skis.
3) He demos a lot of skis.
4) He is genuinely interested in putting you on the "right" ski. This is not to say that the other posters are wrong or don't know what they are talking about. Far from it. It's just that when you get so many recommendations, it can make your head spin. You need to boil it down to one or two people who you think are most qualified. IMHO @Ron is the guy to give you the best advice. Good luck!

 

[James]

You forgot
5) Usually on Injured Reserve.

Ron's the best.

 

[Ron]

You forgot
5) Usually on Injured Reserve.

Ron's the best.

everyone has to be good at something.


Funny note: My OS just called my litany of injuries "life experience injuries" I still think its called bad genetics but that was kind of him. At least living in a MTN town, I'm not so unusual.

 

[Mike Rogers]

If you are in the area, you should stop by the ON3P factory and demo some skis. The guys should be able to point you in the right direction. Their quiver might not be for everyone, but it was designed with the Cascades in mind.

I have the ON3P Billy Goats and I think they are super fun in powder, but they really shine in heavy chop. They aren't super versatile though and even on softer 2D snow, I will reach for something else...especially if I am skiing it tight spaces. It's a good quiver ski for sure....maybe not a perfect pairing with a GS ski for a 2 ski quiver, but a nice 3rd ski or a second ski paired with another ski that excels off-piste.

Their Wren 108 would be more versatile and might be worth a shot. It seems interesting, but I haven't been on it.

To demo look here: https://shop.on3pskis.com/pages/demo-request

Might as well give the local guys a shot!

 

[ski otter 2]

I seem to demo the Wren 108 every year for the past four or five, mainly because Blistergear rates it so highly, through all its changes (not the same ski year to year). But so far, it's never been for me. I'm an ex racer, and this ski in particular is mildly and surprisingly unpleasant at things ex-racers come to value in skis, relatively speaking. It's poor when driven towards the tips, poor on edge on an old snow or soft snow day unless it's over, say 3" or more maybe, not sure. It slarves a bit consistently through every turn, not an on edge rider at all, not a carver - at least for someone my size. A slarvy, easy-going, at most predictable ski. At speed, one can get used to a kind of slarvy stability it has, little chatter or folding, etc.

I've never had the luck of skiing it on a full powder day, however, at least that I can remember, when edges weren't needed some. It must somehow transform when race carving dynamics are no longer possible, to do all the other, powder things, well.

But to me, it seems the opposite of what an ex-racer would want: it's an upright-wanting slarver, with other strengths no doubt, along the lines of the Blistergear reviews. A no, to me.

(Strange that I can remember skiing the Billy Goat repeatedly in powder, but not the Wren 108.)

 

[ski otter 2]

P.S. On the other hand, the post with the above description of the ON3P Billy Goat is spot on, to me, with the addition that the Billy Goat, to me, is wonderful with even a bit of soft snow, and it's great in soft snow bumps and trees, because of the RES (Reverse something something) shape at the front of the ski - wonderful at quick moves there, while it is also great at stable bigger turns out in the open on a powder day. It responds really well to all the techniques an ex-racer does routinely. And it has the stability to be a real powder snow charger, or go slower well too, on a powder or soft snow day, in a way that is distinctive and memorable, to me. (I'm always half-wishing I'd gotten a pair of the things, already. Including during the recent heavy snow powder days here in Colorado, at which I'm told, these skis excel.)

On ON3P demo days, I've always taken at least a few runs on the latest Billy Goat 186 or 188 or sthe o, just to visit an old friend, and a ski I really can appreciate, making that demo day a success all by itself.

For a number of years, the best skier on the mountain at Copper, to me, used the Billy Goat as his one ski quiver, and really was amazing on it, come new powder or no. He had a wide variety of styles, but did all well on those things. I haven't seen him for a while. He was a pro for them of some sort, said he got his skis free from them, as he had before with some other ski brand. Deservedly so. (But for mere mortals like me, I'd want at least some soft snow before I used the Billy Goats, mostly.)

 

[Sbum02030]

I've never skied the Wren but I've found the BG to be the antithesis of what a skier who wants to ski like a racer would want, IME at least. I haven't skied the asym versions FWIW either but I can't imagine asym tips fix the issues.

I found it doesn't like having the tips driven on any snow conditions really but seems to favor a more neutral stance (relative to race skis). Silverback above seemed to notice the same thing as well.

That's not to say you CAN'T do it, but it didn't seem to work with me. That being said, I did ski them on an AT boot with Wardens which could have messed a lot with ramp angle, power transmission, etc. so it may have been different if I was using my Ghosts.

There's a thread here that covers my lack of BG-love and other options- https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/318957-Another-Powder-Ski-Recommendation

Iggy over there says that those who prefer to drive the tips all the time would like the Wren 114 over the BG for this reason.

The Super BGs on the other hand may be pretty sweet but those are uh, rather limited snow condition skis.

When I was looking at BGs as a quiver ski I really wanted a ski that could nuke through crud but crush powder as well. What I found was a ski that could ski both but didn't crush it at either.

It skied crud/chopped up pow decently, but wanted a more passive skier than I was willing to be.

It skied pow well (skied it two seasons back in JH during that late January period when everything went green. Got first tracks in some Granite Canyon areas, 'twas waist deep) but there are skis that would have been more fun.

To me, it seems to jell with people who are willing to be a little more relaxed in their skiing style than someone coming right off a high-level race circuit. Perhaps if I was on them for more than 10-15 days I would have figured it out but I sold them rather than try to figure it out. I'm hoping the Factory Legends or Proto's are what I'm looking for.

Really, IME, a 5 ski quiver is ideal

1. Carver (anything from a SL ski to a mid-80s AM ski)
2. Playful mid-fat (90-105 underfoot, between 180-188cm)
3. Charger (90-105 underfoot, 185+ in length minimum)
4. Pow charger (110mm+ underfoot, 188+ in length)
5. Playful pow ski (110mm+ underfoot, 185-190cm)

 

[ski otter 2]

I'd like to account for our different BG experiences, but not sure how.

Seems like AT boots would make driving the tips a bit harder, but I guess it depends on the boot and skier. I've heard some of those bindings and boots, but especially the pin setups, favor a less driving style.

The RES on the BG does have a different feel, asks for a different balance and handling. It helped that I'd had several years to watch the pro skier I mentioned demonstrate skiing the BGs for me over and over - he often charged with an SG style on steeps that would not be thinkable for me, but was at times more upright, at times driving the tips too, when the situation favored that. (I skied with him a number of times.)

I didn't actually get the BGs, not sure why. I guess maybe they didn't handle powder days, groomers or crud for me as well as Pettitors, Bibbys, Katanas or Atomic Auto 117, for example, I guess, since those were skis I got instead - as well as a few more playful powder skis, and a few true crud buster/chargers. But since I only demoed the BGs, I'll always wonder - especially about them in heavier snow but also generally.

I skied the BG on several boots, I believe, with the ON3P demo binding setup, and mostly Lange RS 130s - race boots (though sometimes RX 130s). With these setups, in the 186 and 189? lengths (different years), the BG 186 especially (from maybe three or four years back?) in 6-8" of powder responded to straightforward drive the tips, especially with the RES (Reverse Elliptical something) in bumps and crud. It took some getting used to, though. That said, I generally don't just throw technique at a ski, I do what the ski seems to favor, and in powder, I'm not going to full on gs ski drive the tips, I'm going to use a more relaxed style - in this case still forward pressuring the tips, rather than fully upright with the BGs. Not a fan of upright unless the ski really wants it. But as I recall, I played with a range of styles there, and the BG responded well, though still with its quirky RES, to a good range of styles.

 

[James]

Ex Racer