Recommendations for Slalom Shaped but Softer Flexing short-radiused ski for aspiring technical skier

[WadeHoliday]

I thought you were talking about my video of pow 8s.
and yep, I'm old school.
and yes, doing a 2 ski carve is less than ideal in powder, especially when you are trying to figure 8 short turns and you just hiked to... a few wanna be race carves just wastes vert...

the "frowned upon" thing is part of the really key discussion here as well,
I believe skiing is fun, self expression, full of wonderful sensations, not a predetermined final form that looks like marcel hirsher. I believe we all have sensations we like, and speeds we like to travel, and developing the skills to turn those intentions into reality is part of the art and magic of skiing. It's also what the best instructors are really good at, listening, watching and helping clients reach toward their ideals, while coaches have an end goal, skiers can create their own. We aren't racing, so how we enjoy traveling down the mtn is our choice. Yes, technique tweaks, balance drills, refinements can make us enjoy it even more, but a good instructor needs to understand those preferences.

sorry, soap box moment, but it is pertinent to this thread.
TimHodgson started it looking for a ski that would help him get the ski bent up into an arc earlier with less speed, that is his intent and sensation he wants to create. He also skis at a mtn that doesn't have lots of "flats". Arcing skis through the full turn is much easier when the forces are lower, like Northstar, or even Squaw or Alpine, where you have long runs at moderate pitch. Thats tough to find at Kirkwood, I gather that he's not an unbreakable 20 something (and neither am I), so working on mitigations of the toy and the technique may help.

Thx for the follow up thoughts.

Cheers!
W

 

[LiquidFeet]

I thought you were talking about my video of pow 8s.
and yep, I'm old school.
and yes, doing a 2 ski carve is less than ideal in powder, especially when you are trying to figure 8 short turns and you just hiked to... a few wanna be race carves just wastes vert...

the "frowned upon" thing is part of the really key discussion here as well,
I believe skiing is fun, self expression, full of wonderful sensations, not a predetermined final form that looks like marcel hirsher. I believe we all have sensations we like, and speeds we like to travel, and developing the skills to turn those intentions into reality is part of the art and magic of skiing. It's also what the best instructors are really good at, listening, watching and helping clients reach toward their ideals, while coaches have an end goal, skiers can create their own. We aren't racing, so how we enjoy traveling down the mtn is our choice. Yes, technique tweaks, balance drills, refinements can make us enjoy it even more, but a good instructor needs to understand those preferences.

sorry, soap box moment, but it is pertinent to this thread.
TimHodgson started it looking for a ski that would help him get the ski bent up into an arc earlier with less speed, that is his intent and sensation he wants to create. He also skis at a mtn that doesn't have lots of "flats". Arcing skis through the full turn is much easier when the forces are lower, like Northstar, or even Squaw or Alpine, where you have long runs at moderate pitch. Thats tough to find at Kirkwood, I gather that he's not an unbreakable 20 something (and neither am I), so working on mitigations of the toy and the technique may help.

Thx for the follow up thoughts.

Cheers!
W

It's a pleasure to read such a calm, generous, and balanced response.

 

[markojp]

It's a pleasure to read such a calm, generous, and balanced response.

As we should all strive to be.

The leg thing, and not specific to Wade... a mentor of mine always likes to say, "independent and simultaneous". Always though of that as a goal for myself. All our mileages may vary in that regard, and that's fine by me unless I'm paid to help achieve a mutually agreed upon outcome.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

"independent and simultaneous" excellent! I will repeat that.

I would say that Tom Gellie would agree. 90% to 10% outside inside ski pressure arcing groomers is not two dependent skis. But two independent skis tipping simultaneously.

Wade, just a quick summary from memory of what skis I will consider buying or demoing. None of them are FIS. All of them are "slalom inspired." I will probably go with a 170cm (I am not sure that they are much different than my 10 year old Dynastar Contacts).

Rossignol Hero Elite ST I with Konect movable binding plate and SPX 12 binding
Dynastar Omeglass Masterspeed SL with Konect movable binding plate and SPX 12 binding
Head iRace
Head eRace
Head Volkl Racetiger SL (not SL R)

Good pithy reviews here:

Men's Slalom ski reviews 2020 - PROSKILAB™

Slalom 2020 SKI REVIEWS: (1) DYNASTAR Speed Master SL R22 : 18,2 - (2) ROSSIGNOL Hero Elite ST TI R22 : 17,9 - (3) VÖLKL Racetiger SL : 17,6 - (4) ELAN SLX Fusion : 16,2 - (5) KÄSTLE RX12 SL : 15,4

www.proskilab.co.uk

 

[WadeHoliday]

I like that phrase, Markojp, I tend toward the independent and sequential a bit more than I'd like but it doesn't get me in trouble too often..

sounds like a good list, Tim.
The dynastar MasterSL and Volkl are on my list too, as well as the augment mastersSL in a soft.
and, Stockli laser SC, may be top of the list now for me, as I really want my skinny hard snow ski to be fun in hard bumps.

OK, I went ahead and ordered one, so committed to my choice now...
I have skied it before, a few years ago, and my buddy Scott Gray (aka Dawgcathing), thought it would be a good fit for what I'm looking for as well. Stockli Laser SC, 170 with SRT speed plate order in.

Thx!
Wade

 

[Viking9]

Nice job Wade good skier on a good ski, your buddy really really liked that ski.
It’s funny that when I daydream of which ski I would get if I ever gave up on my beloved Rossi’s it’s always that SC. I’ll always go back to Sierra Jim at Start Haus going on and on about those Stockli’s.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Wade what is the SRT speed plate?
Does it allow the bindings to be moved fore/aft?

 

[Noodler]

Wade what is the SRT speed plate?
Does it allow the bindings to be moved fore/aft?

View attachment 116721

Yes.

 

[DocGKR]

"TimHodgson started it looking for a ski that would help him get the ski bent up into an arc earlier with less speed, that is his intent and sensation he wants to create. He also skis at a mtn that doesn't have lots of "flats". Arcing skis through the full turn is much easier when the forces are lower, like Northstar, or even Squaw or Alpine, where you have long runs at moderate pitch. Thats tough to find at Kirkwood, I gather that he's not an unbreakable 20 something (and neither am I), so working on mitigations of the toy and the technique may help."

Of the skis I have used: Stockli SC--hands down for what is described above, closely followed by the Head SuperShape i.Speed, then an i.Race.

 

[WadeHoliday]

Nice job Wade good skier on a good ski, your buddy really really liked that ski.
It’s funny that when I daydream of which ski I would get if I ever gave up on my beloved Rossi’s it’s always that SC. I’ll always go back to Sierra Jim at Start Haus going on and on about those Stöckli’s.

thx!
not sure it matters, but TimHodgson mentioned SierraJim too, he is no longer with StartHaus. Jim in the buyer for BlueZone sports ( 5 locations). Great guy, good people in that shop too (including my 20yr old daughter).
Cheers!
W

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Wade, DocGKR, Noodler and others here helped me take that leap of faith to buy the Stockli Laser SC predrilled with SRT Speed Plate and SRT 12 Binding in red/black 20/21 in 170cm, 14.9m radius. One of the nice things about instructing (for all you who are considering it) is that you get a little bit of a break on the price of equipment. One of the bad things about pro-deals is that there is often limited stock and it sells out quickly. So I jumped and ordered them.

In the meantime, I thought this was unusual videography. Wider turns and faster skiing than I plan for them, but definitely shows edge grip:


And this seems to be a good review:


Thanks for everybody's help. I will report back about them once I get my ski legs back and put them to use.

If someone else wants to take the wheel and ask further questions, to make the knowledge pool deeper, go for it.

 

[Noodler]

There's something special about that baby seal fur Stockli includes in their skis. The SC is smooooooth.

 

[Noodler]

Wade, DocGKR, Noodler and others here helped me take that leap of faith to buy the Stöckli Laser SC predrilled with SRT Speed Plate and SRT 12 Binding in red/black 20/21 in 170cm, 14.9m radius. One of the nice things about instructing (for all you who are considering it) is that you get a little bit of a break on the price of equipment. One of the bad things about pro-deals is that there is often limited stock and it sells out quickly. So I jumped and ordered them.

In the meantime, I thought this was unusual videography. Wider turns and faster skiing than I plan for them, but definitely shows edge grip:


And this seems to be a good review:


Thanks for everybody's help. I will report back about them once I get my ski legs back and get to put them to use.

If someone else wants to take the wheel and ask further questions, to make the knowledge pool deeper, go for it.

The skiing shown in that first video isn't really the SC's forte. Although that video shot in PoV was hard to really discern the turn radius.

More bizarre PoV of the Laser SC doing much longer radius turns than you would expect:


More of the bizzare PoV, but at least this skier is getting some better angles going on (the skier is intertwined with a lot of talking):

 

[François Pugh]

At least the 2nd video has good music.
Not to worry, if you tip them up to a good angle they will make tight turns, sharp and hard. Warning, Danger Will Robinson! The more you tip them, the faster the forces increase; the higher the angle the bigger change you will get by increasing by 5 degrees. Don't get launched; it's embarassing.

 

[Tony S]

At least the 2nd video has good music.
Not to worry, if you tip them up to a good angle they will make tight turns, sharp and hard. Warning, Danger Will Robinson! The more you tip them, the faster the forces increase; the higher the angle the bigger change you will get by increasing by 5 degrees. Don't get launched; it's embarassing.

I have a long list of embarrassing. Botched turns are fairly low on the scale. But I do tend to do them right in front of witnesses who are the best skiers on the hill. Never fails.

 

[WadeHoliday]

First morning on my new SC today, it's a winner, exactly what I was looking for in this niche!
I skied it back to back with the mx74, and the mx 74 is a bit more playful and versatile in the hard bumps, but the SC is more rewarding on piste and for the turn I want practice.
And, as Francis said, they are comfortable in that cruisey turn in the vids, but with different DIRT (duration, intensity, rate, timing) of movements, they are quick and turny, even though radius is just slightly longer indicated shape than mx74, this ski liked to shorten it up on piste even more in my first AM.

Super delivery with the pre drilled plate set up as well.

Good choice Tim!

Cheers!
W

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Great report!
We remain in the flat lands this weekend. The skis came today! Looking forward to skiing them ski next weekend.

 

[bud heishman]

Sure,
52yrs in days, level 3 cert, 30 yrs ago!
Don't teach anymore (been many years),
I just enjoy massaging the snow mostly, ski at moderate to slow speeds mostly, ski for sensations and flow and smiles.
My only recent video clip of my recent skiing is powder, as that's all I took video of last year. I can get older vids, but this is accurate for current movements.
here;
pow8s march 19


good thoughts Noodler, agreed, I often choose "quiet" skis a well, but in my "on the snow skinny ski, I really a little pop in what I call my "impact" turn, where I had a quick edge hit near the finish. I'd like that, but I also want something shapely enough to work a more new school short radius highly carved turn. Maybe asking alot to get both of these traits...

Thx!
W

Hey Wade let's make some turns at Rose one day and we will grab a few skis to take with to test! You will love the Augment and I have a few options to choose from.

 

[Rod9301]

Interesting that here technical skiing is skiing groomers.
In my mind, technical skiing is in rocky, exposed terrain.

 

[Prov1kanobi]

Fischer the Curve, Blizzard Quattro RX, or an earlier model Quattro would actually be my #1 choice. Definitely any Fischer that you like the specs on, they make great short radius skis. If you can find a Stockli VRT, I found that one pretty soft with race plates. Maybe try without. The WRT would not be a great choice, I understand its got a real dark side. Another to consider is a Head Magnum. Compared to the others I mentioned I see those as a lower quality option. Keep in mind that I’m 6’0” and 200lbs so my opinions be a little off of what yours are.