Truth. Waxing with good results always requires the correct hardness grade for the given snow temperatures.
When in doubt, wax harder.
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Review: DPS Phantom Permanent Base Glide Treatment
- Thread starter Philpug
- Start date
Truth. Waxing with good results always requires the correct hardness grade for the given snow temperatures.
When in doubt, wax harder.
Depends on how you define "need"...
With Phantom the need for wax is zero. Their claim. Why use it, then wax?
There's a Ski Zen koan there.
Before Phantom, no need for wax. After Phantom, no need for wax.
Before Phantom, no need for wax. After Phantom, no need for wax.
Does Phantom have an OSHA Safety Data Sheet (SDS) yet? I've been told by someone in the industrial materials industry that they are treading on thin ice without one.
Very interesting... especially considering this stuff is used in workplace environments (ski shops).
I can't find one, but there is this:
Warning: Flammable liquid and vapor. Keep away from heat, hot surfaces, sparks, open flames and other ignition sources. Liquid can cause
eye and skin irritation. Use in a well ventilated area and wear protective gloves, eye and face protection. Wash hands thoroughly with soap
and clean water after handling, or immediately in case of contact with Phantom. Immediately wash eyes thoroughly with clean water or saline
solution in case of contact with Phantom. Do not eat, drink or smoke when using Phantom, and do not store food, drinks, tobacco or e-liquid
in or near the areas used to apply or cure Phantom. Do not ingest and do not smoke Phantom. If ingested, or through prolonged exposure,
may cause damage to the central nervous system, the kidneys and the heart. Do not use if you are pregnant or have breathing difficulties. Do
not mix with other products of any kind. Clean up spills immediately. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN AND PETS. It is safer for you to
have the Phantom application process performed by a qualified professional. Once cured on a ski or snowboard, this is an inert material that
is non-hazardous and emits no vapors.
Whenever I see stuff like this I can't help but think it's there because someone actually tried it.
Not exactly what I meant. The glide on Phantom would probably be acceptable to me, so I would no longer need to wax. The glide on Phantom may not be acceptable to someone else, so they may say that they still need to wax. Different levels, or definitions, of "need".
What about stone grinding? Does the grinder operator need to wear a breather mask?
Agree do I
Sounds environmentally friendly to me...
Hard to believe they don't have a MSDS for that product. Especially it is going into shops for application. I can understand retail packaging but definitely not for the commercial applicators.
At our job sites, we have MSDS organized in a binder for everything that is possibly present on site. Even mundane stuff like water, air, sand and gravel.
At our job sites, we have MSDS organized in a binder for everything that is possibly present on site. Even mundane stuff like water, air, sand and gravel.
The respiratory warnings for sand are seriously impressive. "But it's more natural!" 
I got through about half of this 40-page board trying to decide if Phantom is right for me. I represent a different target group than most who have posted here since I’m a casual skier who has never waxed skis (just bought first pair, & husband’s too) and doesn’t own any waxing equipment so the incentive is to either buy waxing equipment or Phantom, but not both. I also live in California and over the holidays I’ll be with my then 5-days-used-once-waxed-skis in sunny San Diego with free time and a back yard, so the application process doesn’t seem daunting if I can get it done there. But husband is scared by the idea of a permanent application, and I won’t do mine if he refuses to do his.
Andy Mink
Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Moderator
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Did he say why? You can wax over Phantom if you ever decide you need a higher or lower temperature wax. Phantom performs pretty much the same as universal wax meaning it's better than a bare base in most conditions but not as good as temp specific wax in others. I would say you ARE the target audience for Phantom.
No base photos, but a few "data" points.
I've skied 10 days so far this season. Fresh wet snow, fresh drier snow, new groomed snow (wet and dry), and in the rain...
7 days on my 1-yrs old skis (QST 85), and 3 days on my 5-yrs old skis (Rossi Scratch). Both with 1 year of DPS (last season) and fresh grind for this season.
Performance is good. On my "test traverses" and run-outs, I am gliding faster and further than other skiers with me. Known skiers have no wax (very poor), and my son's skis with fresh wax applied every 3 days of skiing. I'm gliding better than those.
Yes: different skiers, different skis. But my glide on the flats and traverses is faster/higher/further than the other skiers. That's a data point.
I'll get back to you in February when I should have more days and more conditions.
Summary: It's working for me. Unscientific data. 2nd season of DPS Phantom, with a fresh base grind at the beginning of this season.
Relative weights of son with waxed skis vs you with Phantom? If he's 89 pounds, he's not a good data point. As a good glider myself I know lots of that is sheer physics.
Thanks for the update info. Although I will still be waxing, this info is important for many that might be thinking about Phantom.
There is much truth to the weight factor!
