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dbostedo

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Seems odd that the link I find on their site still describes the old, two-part formulation.
Yeah, they seriously need to update the website. But I wonder if their focus is on the commercial stations at ski shops, and they don't really sell much to self-appliers. That would make sense as to why they haven't seemed to promote the new 1-part Phantom more.
 

DanoT

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Yeah, they seriously need to update the website. But I wonder if their focus is on the commercial stations at ski shops, and they don't really sell much to self-appliers. That would make sense as to why they haven't seemed to promote the new 1-part Phantom more.
What I found in my area of western Canada is that the ski shop charged me about $60CDN more (total $179CDN +tax) to do it vs me buying a kit from Mountain Equipment Co-op for $120 and doing it myself and then have trouble in winter finding enough hours of direct sun to effect a cure of the product.
 

Jersey Skier

aka RatherPlayThanWork or Gary
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Didn't go through 44 pages. How is this on Spring sticky snow? If it works, I'm thinking about just setting up one pair as my Spring skis. My last two days out were 45 and 48 degrees with dangerously sticky spots by afternoon. This Wednesday might hit 60 at Hunter. I love Spring skiing, but not getting ripped out of my skis at speed.
 

Andy Mink

Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
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Didn't go through 44 pages. How is this on Spring sticky snow? If it works, I'm thinking about just setting up one pair as my Spring skis. My last two days out were 45 and 48 degrees with dangerously sticky spots by afternoon. This Wednesday might hit 60 at Hunter. I love Spring skiing, but not getting ripped out of my skis at speed.
It is OK. On the original test skis with the 1st generation factory applied Phantom, I didn't notice any difference between universal wax and Phantom when going from shadows to sun cooked snow. I got the herky jerky either way. A true warm weather wax will probably be better. The same can be said for the extreme opposite; I had pretty slow glide on fresh, cold packed powder at Steamboat this year. All the in-between stuff was fine. You could wax over Phantom with the warm weather wax and at least still have something better than a dry base as the day wears on and the wax strips off.
 

nay

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It is OK. On the original test skis with the 1st generation factory applied Phantom, I didn't notice any difference between universal wax and Phantom when going from shadows to sun cooked snow. I got the herky jerky either way. A true warm weather wax will probably be better. The same can be said for the extreme opposite; I had pretty slow glide on fresh, cold packed powder at Steamboat this year. All the in-between stuff was fine. You could wax over Phantom with the warm weather wax and at least still have something better than a dry base as the day wears on and the wax strips off.

It’s slower than a good wax in spring for me. The best thing about Phantom is set and forget. I’m not a tinkerer, I want to use my stuff.

Any time I hear about infinite tune my first thought is “run”. There’s zero need for Phantom if you think there’s a best base setting for various conditions. It’s perfect if you don’t care, just get a spring wax on top once a year.
 

ScottB

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I have Phantom on all my skis. I rarely wax anymore and never think about if I have good glide, I always do. I agree that at either weather extreme adding the right wax on top of phantom is an improvement. I carry some Dominator "Butter" spring wax that is a rub on. Occasionally I will add it. It only lasts about 1/2 day, with or without Phantom so once it wears off I am sure glad I have the phantom there to keep me gliding pretty well.
 

Jacques

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I have Phantom on all my skis. I rarely wax anymore and never think about if I have good glide, I always do. I agree that at either weather extreme adding the right wax on top of phantom is an improvement. I carry some Dominator "Butter" spring wax that is a rub on. Occasionally I will add it. It only lasts about 1/2 day, with or without Phantom so once it wears off I am sure glad I have the phantom there to keep me gliding pretty well.
Dominator butter is awesome for spring corn. Now they also make a fluoro free version.

That said, when one has fresh snow that then becomes super warm, all bets are off. For that, better to use a much harder HF wax.
 
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From what I understand, phantom is infused into the base so it pretty much becomes part of your base. Has anyone had any grinds done since having phantom wax applied and noticed any reduction in glide?
 

dovski

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From what I understand, phantom is infused into the base so it pretty much becomes part of your base. Has anyone had any grinds done since having phantom wax applied and noticed any reduction in glide?
I experimented extensively with Phantom several years back. It did seem to hold up, but on one ski after about 6-7 full tunes it was no longer effective. So yes it does become part of your base but only goes so deep.
 

DanoT

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From what I understand, phantom is infused into the base so it pretty much becomes part of your base. Has anyone had any grinds done since having phantom wax applied and noticed any reduction in glide?
My skis had recent grinds prior to getting the DPS Phantom treatment so I can't give a first hand answer but research that I have done indicates that because the chemical treatment penetrates the base, a fresh grind actually increases the DPS performance.

I have not encountered really wet or slushy conditions but fresh snow that was not powder (you could make snowballs) had little to no effect on the glide.
 

VS_Power

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I've got four skis with DPS 2.0 on them and I honestly can't tell the difference. It's a mix of the older two part formula (still version 2.0) and the newer one part application. And to be honest I only actually have it on one pair of skis - the rest is on snowboards. I recently switched to skiing.

I really honestly can't tell the difference with DPS on. I consider myself a good skier/snowboarder (can easily board down black diamonds switch) and also a big gear tinkerer. I wax my boards myself before every trip and have 5+ different types of every piece of equipment (hard and soft goods). Whenever I've tested using a DPS ski/board without wax, I've always been disappointed in the performance. People say DPS works best at higher speeds and perhaps at different temperatures, but that feels like some baloney to me as I'm sure if I was skiing fast enough it'd glide well even with glue under it.

The one thing I will give DPS credit though is putting regular wax ON TOP of the DPS wax can yield incredible results. In the right conditions it's the only time I've ever felt the wax was too good - like I was skiing on ice despite average snow conditions.

I probably won't be buying my 5th set of DPS. I'm not the target market in that I don't mind waxing my gear myself regularly. However, I think it MIGHT be worth it for someone who never wants to wax their stuff and is OK with < 70% of the performance of basic all temperature wax. And you don't care that your bases will look thirsty all the time. I'm not even 100% sure if DPS is even worth it then because to be honest I've never gone 10+ days with DPS and without regular wax (to see if DPS really lasts).

I would love to be wrong about all this because I've spent more money on DPS than 99% of people.
 

East Coast Scott

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If I purchase skis with this Phantom treatment on it, what are the things I shouldn't do. Do I need to tell the the shop I have this treatment when I ask them to tune my skis? I've read some people wax over this treatment and it doesn't bother it. One more question, are there any disadvantages to purchasing new skis with this Phantom wax treatment? Thanks

Edit: Almost forgot, what if the skis that are treated with Phantom get a good core shot and need repair?
 

DanoT

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If I purchase skis with this Phantom treatment on it, what are the things I shouldn't do. Do I need to tell the the shop I have this treatment when I ask them to tune my skis? I've read some people wax over this treatment and it doesn't bother it. One more question, are there any disadvantages to purchasing new skis with this Phantom wax treatment? Thanks

Edit: Almost forgot, what if the skis that are treated with Phantom get a good core shot and need repair?
The answer to the first question is"nothing". I had 3 pair of skis DPSed last November and skied 3-4 half days per week all season and did nothing to the bases.

The biggest disadvantage to DPS is the additional cost that it adds to the purchase price of a ski. The only way DPS works financially is if you compare it to paying a shop to wax your skis every 3-4 days. The target market for DPS Phantom waxless treatment is someone who has no place to wax a ski and/or does not want to wax skis.

As far as what to tell a shop who is tuning your skis, I would decline if waxing is extra (likely would be) or accept the waxing if it is really wet snow and you want condition specific waxing or you want to go racing.

Ski repair: Ptex doesn't accept wax so the net effect of using it for minor repairs is the same with DPS or without. Metalgrip is mostly used to repair core shots and damage beside a metal edge where ptex won't stick. I am not sure if it accepts wax or not, and of course it will be a spot on the ski that does not have the DPS treatment but it would take a high level racer or instructor to notice any difference in glide in a metalgrip or ptex repaired ski, I would guess.
 
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VickieH

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I got my skis Phantom'd when I bought them 3 years ago. I have about 100 days on them. I think REI waxed them after applying Phantom. They haven't been waxed since. The bases look really good.

It is my understanding that you can have about 10% of the base Ptex'd with no need to wax or reapply Phantom. That information is 2nd hand, at best ... a Phantom user checked on it, then told me about it. If I find a more direct response, I'll post it here.
 

DanoT

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It is my understanding that you can have about 10% of the base Ptex'd with no need to wax or reapply Phantom
If one has 10% of a ski Ptex'd, it might be time for new skis, a new resort with more snow and less rocks, or a lesson on how to turn a ski to avoid objects. Or all of the above. :duck:
 

fatbob

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If one has 10% of a ski Ptex'd, it might be time for new skis, a new resort with more snow and less rocks, or a lesson on how to turn a ski to avoid objects. Or all of the above. :duck:

Nah - tools not jewels. If a ski you use regularly off groomers doesn't have a significant amount of ptex you're not trying hard enough/ it's not really broken in
 

DanoT

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Nah - tools not jewels. If a ski you use regularly off groomers doesn't have a significant amount of ptex you're not trying hard enough/ it's not really broken in
Nah, you just need to ski at someplace that is not in the "Rockies" or somewhere that gets more snow than Europe.
 

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