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DanoT

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I used to wax with a universal all temperature shop wax. Now that my skis have been DPS'd, I find the skis glide performance very comparable to the shop wax which is fine with me as I am not trying to win races.
 

Jacques

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Phantom will provide better performance than no wax at all, which is often the case with skiers who don't wax their skis frequently. However, using the appropriate temperature-specific wax can give you the best performance for that temperature.
I am aware that folks that don't wax their skis will say it glides fine with Phantom! :roflmao::roflmao::popcorn::roflmao:
 

Jacques

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I used to wax with a universal all temperature shop wax. Now that my skis have been DPS'd, I find the skis glide performance very comparable to the shop wax which is fine with me as I am not trying to win races.
Exactly. As long as you are happy, and don't mind premature base hair, then it's all good.
"All temp. shop wax" could be .......who knows?
 

ScottB

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I have been using DPS Phantom on all my skis since it came out in 2017. I have it on over 10 pairs of skis. I have a lot of experience with it, as I have applied it myself every time. My experience has taught me that DPS works well in the middle range temps. Above 40F I use Dominator Butter spring wax which really helps compared to just Phantom. Below 10F, especially 0 and below (F) I put some Dominator Bullet wax on otherwise the skis are noticeably sticky. Bullet is really hard and really difficult to scrape off, but it greatly improves the glide in those cold temps. Any other temp, the Phantom glide is just slightly improved by waxing. Now, I am talking about recreational use, not racing. If/when I race, I use Phantom and temp. specific wax for the best glide possible.

I also believe regular waxing adds lubrication to your ski bases, and prolongs the time or hours before base burn sets in. Eventually any ski will get base burn, but that just means you need a bottom grind to remove the surface damage on the Ptex and get down to fresh plastic. Without any wax, Phantom skis will get base burn sooner and require a base grind sooner. I find that my skis that get say 30 days a year use, need a grind about every 3 years. I would guess double that if waxed regularly. The ski I used most often did start to loose its glide due to base burn, but a bottom grind cured it and brought it right back. I have never had any ski loose its glide after a base grind, they always came right back to typical Phantom glide behavior.

My use model has evolved to using Phantom on all my skis and occasionally waxing on top of the Phantom. Instead of regular hot waxing with base prep wax then temp. specific wax on top, I just do "rub on" wax with SKIMD's wax wizzard on occasion and that keeps me gliding in the "happy zone".

One note to add, if you don't use base prep wax a couple times a season with temp. specific wax on top, I was only getting 1 day out of a hot wax. Once I started using the soft base prep first, every three or 4 hot waxes, I was getting 3-4 days from a hot wax. If you have a good sized quiver, that is a lot of waxing. With the Phantom, I wax when I have the time and don't really think about it anymore. I also had a pro-deal, so the initial expense was not that bad for me. I am still a big fan of Phantom, but it wouldn't say its a never wax again solution. It more of a "maintain good glide" with minimal waxing.
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
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I have been using DPS Phantom on all my skis since it came out in 2017. I have it on over 10 pairs of skis. I have a lot of experience with it, as I have applied it myself every time. My experience has taught me that DPS works well in the middle range temps. Above 40F I use Dominator Butter spring wax which really helps compared to just Phantom. Below 10F, especially 0 and below (F) I put some Dominator Bullet wax on otherwise the skis are noticeably sticky. Bullet is really hard and really difficult to scrape off, but it greatly improves the glide in those cold temps. Any other temp, the Phantom glide is just slightly improved by waxing. Now, I am talking about recreational use, not racing. If/when I race, I use Phantom and temp. specific wax for the best glide possible.

I also believe regular waxing adds lubrication to your ski bases, and prolongs the time or hours before base burn sets in. Eventually any ski will get base burn, but that just means you need a bottom grind to remove the surface damage on the Ptex and get down to fresh plastic. Without any wax, Phantom skis will get base burn sooner and require a base grind sooner. I find that my skis that get say 30 days a year use, need a grind about every 3 years. I would guess double that if waxed regularly. The ski I used most often did start to loose its glide due to base burn, but a bottom grind cured it and brought it right back. I have never had any ski loose its glide after a base grind, they always came right back to typical Phantom glide behavior.

My use model has evolved to using Phantom on all my skis and occasionally waxing on top of the Phantom. Instead of regular hot waxing with base prep wax then temp. specific wax on top, I just do "rub on" wax with SKIMD's wax wizzard on occasion and that keeps me gliding in the "happy zone".

One note to add, if you don't use base prep wax a couple times a season with temp. specific wax on top, I was only getting 1 day out of a hot wax. Once I started using the soft base prep first, every three or 4 hot waxes, I was getting 3-4 days from a hot wax. If you have a good sized quiver, that is a lot of waxing. With the Phantom, I wax when I have the time and don't really think about it anymore. I also had a pro-deal, so the initial expense was not that bad for me. I am still a big fan of Phantom, but it wouldn't say its a never wax again solution. It more of a "maintain good glide" with minimal waxing.
Since you use some Dominator already, I have not fired my iron all season yet.
I'm using the new Elite, and FFC paste waxes. They are indeed the bomb, and although I'm not a Phantom guy, I like your seemingly honest report.
The Harder paste are sweet, because you need no heat! With the paste, there is no waste!
If you try them, get back to us here : https://www.skitalk.com/threads/eve...ow-about-the-new-dominator-paste-waxes.29556/
 

Mendieta

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Folks, I ordered my first application. It is coming next week, and there will be snow for at least another month here in Tahoe, so I am going to be skiing. My use case will be exactly as @ScottB 's a couple post above.

Here is my question: how do I prep the bases? I am not going to have a base grind right before applying it And my bases (in the one pair I always ski) are decently saturated. Any thoughts on how to make the base material porous again so that it can absorb the phantom treatment as much as possible? I am thinking, at a minimum, a damp cloth and clean as well as possible. But there might be better ideas.

I am sure it is posted somewhere in the 50 pages above. But that's the curse of "never ending" threads. It's like finding lipstick in a purse :roflmao:. I will post a fresh thread with my application for other people's benefit. Plenty of sunshine here in Cali, so it should cure well!
 

ScottB

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There's info on the DPS site on this, I believe, but my thoughts are: use a brass brush to get as much wax and dirt out of the base as possible. Do this as often as you want, use wax remover or base cleaner before the brushing too. Keep skiing the skis and don't wax the skis anymore till after applying Phantom, let the wax naturally wear out as much as possible due to skiing. If they become sticky due to most of the wax being gone, stop skiing them and switch to another pair. IF you know they are sticky, one more round of base cleaner/remover and a wire brush and you should be ready to apply Phantom.

I used a Citrus cleaner by Swix and brass brush on my skis before applying Phantom and it worked pretty well. On some skis, I did a fresh grind then application and that seemed to give better initial results, marginally. Getting any Phantom residue or dirt out of the the skis is important after applying Phantom to get to the good glide. One or two pairs of skis didn't glide great until 2-4 days use, I assumed due to left over residue in the ski base (I am talking microscopic residue). DPS has changed their Phantom formulation, so the left over residue issue maybe a thing of the past. They have a single part formulation now, replacing the 2 part original formulation.

Make sure the skis sit in bright sun all day long, lots of UV exposure of the treated bases is very important. I left my treated skis on a south facing deck all day long and had no issues with curing the stuff. I put it on before work and left them there till I came home in the evening.
 

ScottB

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Never put it on cloth. I did put it on my cross country skis (ptex fish scale bottoms) and it worked great on them, as expected. Funny thing is the first time I put it on, I didn't put it on the scales section, just tip and tail sections. I then used the skis in some sticky wet snow. The snow stuck and clumped to the scales section and not at all to the tips and tails. I did it again over the scales too and no more clumping or sticking to the ski. The grip from the scales was unaffected by the Phantom, which was my concern on the first application. Phantom may not be the answer to never waxing, but it does change the ability of the snow to stick to the Ptex.
 

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