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Rob Katz to step down as Vail resorts CEO

DanoT

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But I agree, Rob Katz and Vail transformed the industry, did an amazing job for shareholders, and for the most part are very good at what they do.
AND Katz and Vail significantly lowered the cost per day of lift access for people that ski a lot and may have got others to ski more days per season.
 

geepers

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AND Katz and Vail significantly lowered the cost per day of lift access for people that ski a lot and may have got others to ski more days per season.

Seems true and may suit those already bitten by the snow sports bug.

What has been the impact on prospective skiers? The increase in day ticket pricing is likely a significant barrier to anyone thinking of checking out snow sports. Not certain I'd have been willing to buy day tickets at today's current price points when our two kids were still on the payroll.

Did hear that industry wide the retention of new customers is around 18%. Only 18% ever go back for a second day! Some resorts have higher retention rates (e.g. Big White is supposedly over 50%). A couple of the things that may have helped are a program for never-evers to get them going quickly (bundled gear hire, ticket and lesson with a guarantee) and, on selected weekends, family friendly deals.

Does Vail have anything for those yet to be addicted?
 

Ogg

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Seems true and may suit those already bitten by the snow sports bug.

What has been the impact on prospective skiers? The increase in day ticket pricing is likely a significant barrier to anyone thinking of checking out snow sports. Not certain I'd have been willing to buy day tickets at today's current price points when our two kids were still on the payroll.

Did hear that industry wide the retention of new customers is around 18%. Only 18% ever go back for a second day! Some resorts have higher retention rates (e.g. Big White is supposedly over 50%). A couple of the things that may have helped are a program for never-evers to get them going quickly (bundled gear hire, ticket and lesson with a guarantee) and, on selected weekends, family friendly deals.

Does Vail have anything for those yet to be addicted?
Does anyone actually pay window price these days? Purchasing online even a few days in advance can get you a significant discount many places.
 

geepers

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Does anyone actually pay window price these days? Purchasing online even a few days in advance can get you a significant discount many places.

What's a significant discount?

Just checked Vail's Perisher web site and an online purchase several days in advance would save me 2.6% ($4) on a weekend and 10.9% ($17) on a weekday. The former won't quite buy a cup of coffee in the resort and the latter will buy about a slice of pizza. (Well it would except the resort is not operating due to statewide lockdown.)

May be different in Nth Amex but not quite what I had in mind compared to BW. Their never-ever program was suspended last year due to covid but IIRC the price was something like $25 for the hire, rides, lesson for the day.

BTW MHO everything that Mike and Danot wrote is correct - Vail has changed the industry in many way for the better. Just one simple example is being able to ski Australia and then use the same pass for a short northern winter trip. And their covid refund policies have been outstanding (at last locally) - the benefit of the financial stability of a corporation vs a small business.

Just wondering what's on offer to bring in newbies.
 

sparty

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Does anyone actually pay window price these days? Purchasing online even a few days in advance can get you a significant discount many places.
I'm not 100% sure how much it happens now, but pre-Covid, I was shocked by the number of people who did so. I've done so on occasion myself (usually when hedging against weather or surface conditions), but while waiting in line with a voucher in 2019, I've seen multiple walk up and pay retail without any visible flinching.

Even previously, there were often ways to pay ahead of time (sometimes without date-specific commitment) and get far better deals, but it seems like those deals go to people who look for them in particular and are ready to commit to four ski days at resort X in November, versus someone who decides "let's take the family skiing next weekend."
 

weatherman

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What's a significant discount?

Just checked Vail's Perisher web site and an online purchase several days in advance would save me 2.6% ($4) on a weekend and 10.9% ($17) on a weekday. The former won't quite buy a cup of coffee in the resort and the latter will buy about a slice of pizza. (Well it would except the resort is not operating due to statewide lockdown.)

May be different in Nth Amex but not quite what I had in mind compared to BW. Their never-ever program was suspended last year due to covid but IIRC the price was something like $25 for the hire, rides, lesson for the day.

BTW MHO everything that Mike and Danot wrote is correct - Vail has changed the industry in many way for the better. Just one simple example is being able to ski Australia and then use the same pass for a short northern winter trip. And their covid refund policies have been outstanding (at last locally) - the benefit of the financial stability of a corporation vs a small business.

Just wondering what's on offer to bring in newbies.
Don't expect significant discounts buying a few days in advance. The industry knows that by the time you're a few days out, you are far less price sensitive. You already know that you'll be in the area and what snow conditions will be. The significant discounts are only available pre-season. Even on day tickets, you're looking at a solid 50% off window rate via one of the Epic Day Pass / Ikon Session Pass and similar products.
 

Seldomski

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Just wondering what's on offer to bring in newbies.
Most (every?) Vail properties have lesson/lift bundles that are a good deal compared to walk up lift ticket rates. The bundle is generally 3 days of instruction + lift tickets. I think the per day cost for the beginner group lesson + lift ticket may even be less than just buying a lift ticket at some resorts. It was the case at Breck and Beaver Creek a couple years ago.

The bigger barrier to entry is all the other costs and logistics of a typical ski trip. Lodging, transport, parking, walking in ski boots, winter driving, appropriate clothing (and comfort for variable conditions/weather), etc. It's a lot to navigate and it is helpful to have someone guide you through it - either via a ski club or a friend.

I am not sure what the never-ever experience is for someone living in ski country - I only have a feel for what other destination travelers deal with when learning to ski (ie those that board a plane with their S.O./friend to ski for the first time). I suspect that if you live in ski country, you would probably try to learn at a cheaper smaller ski area before going to a Vail property.
 

mikel

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I'm sure everyone on here has been getting plenty of emails from multiple pass products and/or resorts. VR is certainly not hiding the fact that if you are looking for the best pricing then buy now. I received 2 different emails from Epic yesterday. I have received multiple emails from Breck over the last week. I think pretty much all best pricing for winter products comes to an end this week.

I may have a skewed perspective but I don't see it as Rob Katz is stepping down. I see him stepping up and believe he will continue to have his hand in the cookie jar.
 

geepers

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Don't expect significant discounts buying a few days in advance. The industry knows that by the time you're a few days out, you are far less price sensitive. You already know that you'll be in the area and what snow conditions will be. The significant discounts are only available pre-season. Even on day tickets, you're looking at a solid 50% off window rate via one of the Epic Day Pass / Ikon Session Pass and similar products.

50% - wow. Not getting anything like that on day passes in Oz. Doesn't matter how far in advance. The early season pass is a good discount.
 

SkierGolferNH

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For a detailed account of how this all happened, I recommend reading Ski Inc. 2020 by Chris Diamond.
Just as we hate to admit that snowboarding saved skiing thirty years ago, in many ways the Epic Pass did the same thing.
 

Ice2Pow

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For a detailed account of how this all happened, I recommend reading Ski Inc. 2020 by Chris Diamond.
Just as we hate to admit that snowboarding saved skiing thirty years ago, in many ways the Epic Pass did the same thing.
This. I was scrolling to the bottom to suggest that people read this if they find this thread interesting. And I would recommend starting with its immediate prequel, “Ski Inc.” published in 2016. Both written by Steamboat’s former CEO.
 

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