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Rule Changes - Super Tuck, Bottle Toss

scott43

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Anybody done the super-tuck? I do it now and again for fun, used to do it more way back when I was ummm...more flexible... :ogbiggrin: It's not a very stable position..I'm not sure I agree with the banning it..they're more than likely going to wipe out themselves..I don't even know how much faster it is.

As for bottles..to me that's just primadonna behaviour..like, I'm too good to bother throwing this bottle an extra 10' off the road. They sure can toss'em when they're pist off at other riders! Just lazy and stupid move. Imagine if someone threw a bottle under your front wheel on your local hero route... :nono:
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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The whole topic is ridiculous when you consider how well these riders will be able to handle descents when the new modified lightweight dropper posts for road bikes come onto the market in - I dare say - five years or less.
 

tch

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The whole topic is ridiculous when you consider how well these riders will be able to handle descents when the new modified lightweight dropper posts for road bikes come onto the market in - I dare say - five years or less.
Yeah, but given the dinosaurs running UCI, it'll be 25 years before they allow those posts.
 

graham418

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So the 'Superman' is still allowed?

descending-video-still.jpg
 

scott43

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Yeah, but given the dinosaurs running UCI, it'll be 25 years before they allow those posts.
I read a thing today where Froome says he's still not happy with disc brakes. I don't know that they're dinosaurs..buttttt...they definitely move slowly and carefully..more like sloths....
 

scott43

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The whole topic is ridiculous when you consider how well these riders will be able to handle descents when the new modified lightweight dropper posts for road bikes come onto the market in - I dare say - five years or less.
Lookiechew all psychic and stuff!!!!

 

Delicious

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Anybody done the super-tuck? I do it now and again for fun, used to do it more way back when I was ummm...more flexible... :ogbiggrin: It's not a very stable position..I'm not sure I agree with the banning it..they're more than likely going to wipe out themselves..I don't even know how much faster it is.

As for bottles..to me that's just primadonna behaviour..like, I'm too good to bother throwing this bottle an extra 10' off the road. They sure can toss'em when they're pist off at other riders! Just lazy and stupid move. Imagine if someone threw a bottle under your front wheel on your local hero route... :nono:
I don't watch a ton of the pro peloton. Who/What prompted this "tuck rule"? I DO know that lightweight deep section wheels grab a ton of wind on exposed alpine descents. I also know that guys are essentially forced to size down 1 or 2 frame sizes to make stock geometry work (resulting in shorter wheelbase). Maybe I'm numb to it, but thinking about it now, I HAVE noticed the "super tuck" being utilized in odd locations and by riders of no consequence to the race. But was there some specific incident?
 

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I read a thing today where Froome says he's still not happy with disc brakes. I don't know that they're dinosaurs..buttttt...they definitely move slowly and carefully..more like sloths....
I saw the Chris Froome video that you're referencing. Looooong time Froome hater here, but I actually respect his opinion, and agree with him. I still prefer a properly set-up DuraAce caliper on a machined metal rim for feel, performance, and consistency. But... I LOVE thru-axles on the road, and simply won't give them back! You apparently don't get one without the other, so disc brakes it is.
 

scott43

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The late great Jobst Brandt used to say, a rim brake is really a giant disc brake, and he's right. I don't see any reason for the industry to fight to keep rim brakes..more money to be made with discs.

Thru-axles are great for discs because they prevent accidental ejection of the front wheel by disc brake forces. They do also stiffen up the fork..but the great QR innovation has been neutered somewhat.
 

scott43

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I don't watch a ton of the pro peloton. Who/What prompted this "tuck rule"? I DO know that lightweight deep section wheels grab a ton of wind on exposed alpine descents. I also know that guys are essentially forced to size down 1 or 2 frame sizes to make stock geometry work (resulting in shorter wheelbase). Maybe I'm numb to it, but thinking about it now, I HAVE noticed the "super tuck" being utilized in odd locations and by riders of no consequence to the race. But was there some specific incident?
I don't know of any specific incident..but generally, it can be a gnarly position if you need to maneuver the bike at all. I suppose this is a bit of closing the barn door before the horses get out. It reminds me a bit of the toxic wax debate in skiing. If everyone has the same rule, I don't see what the issue is. But..competitors wanna win..and many would run their competitors into the barriers to win...
 

cantunamunch

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But was there some specific incident?

There was a rather shocking in-competition incident but it wasn't a peloton incident. I am, of course, referring to Chloe Dygert's crash shown here:


One of the elements that was picked up on by just about everybody "analyzing" that crash is that she lost contact with her saddle.

I really don't think we have firm (ahem) science on whether that loss of contact was causative, contributive, or just coincidental, but it is a low-hanging fruit for the UCI to regulate.


(For my own part, the notion that loss of saddle contact lowers the frequency and increases amplitude is fairly attractive):
 

JShort

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The new bans on supertuck and elbows-on-the-bars is definitely just a way for the UCI to get around actually making sure courses are safe. Most of the high profile crashes lately can be attributed to either poor course planning (like a downhill sprint finish that inexplicably narrows) or poor course prep (bad protection/cleaning at corners). Basically, it's free to ban the supertuck, very expensive to actually make safe courses
 

cantunamunch

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The no-forearms-on-the-bars rule restatement was, of course, completely predictable. The UCI can watch GCN just like the rest of us, so when videos like this come out:


(Yes, you heard that right, 25cm spacing between the brake hoods, 15-16cm bar reach)

and when Speeco come out with commercial products like the Aero Break Away bar:


1613837197586.png


OF COURSE the UCI are going to react. How did anyone not see that coming?
 

scott43

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Pro riders are dinosaurs; they cement whatever they were taught in their junior years. Remember when Contador didn't like aero wheels - mostly because Manolo Saiz hated them?
Yeah..they take forever to move away from tried and true, that's for sure. Go with what brung ya there I guess..
 

scott43

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There was a rather shocking in-competition incident but it wasn't a peloton incident. I am, of course, referring to Chloe Dygert's crash shown here:
To me that looks like she hit a bump or lost traction..bobbled..ended up in a wobble and just didn't have the time and space for her to sort it out. Not being on the saddle probably didn't help. I've only had motorcycle speed wobbles and the time and panic factors mean you're sometimes really not doing much except thinking about how stupid you were to die like this...
 

cantunamunch

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To me that looks like she hit a bump or lost traction..bobbled..ended up in a wobble and just didn't have the time and space for her to sort it out. Not being on the saddle probably didn't help. I've only had motorcycle speed wobbles and the time and panic factors mean you're sometimes really not doing much except thinking about how stupid you were to die like this...

Yeh, the first time I saw that video, I thought it was just...normal for a front tire slideout.

About the 5th or 10th time I watched it I really grasped that all my instincts for dealing with something like that were dead wrong. (I am, without a shred of a doubt, in the Pantani position camp). About the 30th I got really scared.

Then I started wondering if road and tri bikes were just late to the long front-center party that gravel and MTB have been rolling at because of old aero concepts.

Then the Scott Plasma 6 came out with that HUGE wheel-to-downtube gap - and my gut feeling about front center on road/tri bikes gelled.
 
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