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New England Saddleback Rebirth 2020 and beyond

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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It's past time to retire that old 2019 thread. It's 2020, and it's happening!

 

LiquidFeet

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I've been following this story even though Saddleback is a very long drive and I've never been there.

It's amazing, given the prior failed attempts at sales, that this new owner is actually following through with promises that seemed exaggerated. I hopeful that they figure out an innovative way to get open in pandemic time and prove that their mission delivers.
 

pipestem

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^That's a good article. I like that proposed hiring plan if they can pull it off. I really hope to get back up there again - what a great mountain. It's amazing how similar it all sounds to the Timberline WV saga.
 

Wilhelmson

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Perfect timing to make any covid modifications to the infrastructure. We plan on going on a couple blackout days. Wonder what the peak day pass rate will be?
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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Helicopters are on site pouring foundations for the new lift towers.

 

ScottB

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I am debating on buying their "threedom" pass for this coming season to make sure I get up there to check it out and enjoy the terrain. I will keep my expectations tempered a bit. I hope the cascade glades are still in good shape and skiable. A few years of uncleared growth may make them a bit dangerous. The only day I skied there, there were no crowds, so the old main lift wasn't an issue. But the new lift will certainly be a welcome improvement. For those who haven't skied there, once you get up the lift at the base lodge, you will typically traverse over to the middle of the mtn where there is a fairly new quad that covers the upper 2/3 of the mtn and ski that mainly.
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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sparty

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Interesting info from a presentation to the LUPC, trying to get approval for a solar farm and a mid-mountain lodge:
https://www.pressherald.com/2020/09...s-to-build-solar-farm-new-mid-mountain-lodge/

Among the claims: Saddleback has never been truly sustainable economically, and they think that they need to (and can) attract 120-150k skier visits per year to be sustainable.

Just to note: I goofed the numbers, maybe that was a Freudian slip based on the assumption that a presentation for building approval is going to overstate numbers. The quote was 150-180k visits per year to be sustainable.

I think that may be a tough row to hoe given the location and size, particularly given that Sugarloaf probably already has a lot of potential customers locked in (i.e. many of the people who are willing to drive that far from New England population centers already own condos there and are unlikely to defect). I hope they pull it off, though, as I remember it as a really cool place to ski and I'd love to get back up there just to ski (not to race).
 

Wendy

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I was up at Saddleback in late August. The towers were up, but it appeared that the loading area was not yet installed. I think a new rope tow or Poma is replacing the old one; there was an earthmover up around that location. The lodge had some new siding. We couldn’t walk around a lot due to construction tape. But there was work going on.
 

Muleski

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I have skied at Saddleback, off and on since it first opened. My dad was very friendly with the original owner /developers. and with the second group, and as I had written before, he agreed to dig into it and possibly buy it in the late 60's. He decided not to for a few reasons. The big one was location, and more than that the perception of the location. People perceive that it's a lot farther than Sugarloaf. It's not. But perception tends to be reality. And that distance meant some tough competition for skier visits, and still does. Ohh, and there were some other compelling ski area investments. The one in Eagle Valley, CO worked out well.

Keep in mind that was when Sunday River was this tiny little backwater area, and before Black Mountain became the local gem that it is today, with a good local following. And, skiing was cheap. Many people in Central Maine day tripped to ski. Evidently cost is a giant factor for most families.

Another reason is the weather. You can get into all sorts of conversations about the temperature, the exposure and wind at Saddleback versus Sugarloaf. I do not wish to engage. Saddleback is colder, on most days, in my experience. The mountain faces right into a NW "breeze."

From almost day one, Saddleback has been touted as a potential true "Four Seasons" location, and that has been a struggle. The ski area is a bit of a hike from the town, and access to the lake is not as simple as many assume that it is in the summer. It's just something that needs to be worked around, planned out, and marketed. The "Sled town" persona of the town does not help, but it's critical for local business these days.

I don't believe that Saddleback has ever had a "real" ski season with more than 80,000 paid skier days. In their biggest years, there were a large number of skiers on comp'd or heavily discounted tickets. The actual skiing can be tremendous. We love it. With the growth of AT, BC and side country skiing, Saddleback might be marketed as a real Mecca for that stuff, as well as good old woods and tree skiing. It's also far North and will be better positioned to get snow, and retain snow late in the season....man made and natural. It can be viewed as a N.E. classic with a modern twist.

BUT, whenever I end up in a conversation about the place, with industry types, it comes back to the issue of the critical mass needed. The article says that the think they need 150K to 180K. That's a big uptick form where they were in their last operating years, and the place has been shuttered for years. Where are those people going to come from? Do you need to effectively dive into Sugarloaf's numbers. Sugarloaf has among the highest percentage of skiers in the country who either own property on mountain, and who ski on season passes. The on mountain housing is used all the time, by a loyal following. What's the incentive for large numbers to move? Sugarloaf is no perfect, but it has a rabid following.

Sunday River has been masterful at initially creating inexpensive housing {not so much these days, much is very high end}and in marketing location as being MUCH closer to Boston, Portland, etc. Having lived in Boston and Portland, having owned at SL for decades and having rented in Bethel with a child at Gould....in reality, on a Friday or Sunday night, the driving time, wear and tear, etc. is not that different. Regardless, the SR crowd feels that it is much closer, easier, and they are NOT going to change weekend location to Rangeley, or Dallas Plantation, IMO. SR also has that long standing reputation for great snowmaking.

I want this to work, SO MUCH, for Saddleback. When I think it through, I struggle to see it pencil out. As I hear about real estate development plans, I know at least a dozen current owners who are hoping that things go well so that they can sell and get out above water. If you have ever played in the ski town real estate business, in terms of new development, it's best to have almost no inventory of existing condos....particularly nice ones. I think it will be some time before they can be building and selling....and I hope they have that time.

Back to the skier day count. Where do they come from? They need to pretty much double their best years, and triple recent ones. They won't come from NH, or VT, IMO. I am sure numbers will increase, but enough?

They are sinking a lot of money into the place. The cynics say "perfect for THE NEXT owners...."

Fingers crossed for them, and for that region of Maine. Tough times, even pre-COVID.
 

Wilhelmson

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For the well heeled family that can take Friday afternoons off and every vacation week and has no other plans on the weekend the extra hour drive is negligible and the unrivaled terrain with improved infrastructure is compelling. Stow is overdeveloped played out and Little Brooklyn. Ok now I am just goofing around

Not us, due to schedule and pass cost considerations we will try it out for one maybe two days.
 
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Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Looking a little white.
 

dbostedo

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^^^^
"Don’t worry the lift is designed to run in reverse."

Good thing they had that there. For a second I thought they'd hung all the chairs backward! :P
 

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