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Salomon S/LAB MTN Boot and Binding compatibility

firebanex

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I've googled this topic to death trying to find the answer, I may have already found the answer but I am not sure the answer I found is definite enough. I also may have gone a bit crazy over the last couple months trying to find the answer and never really finding one that is backed up multiple times. Anyways, I got a pair of Salomon S/Lab MTN boots last spring after the season ended with the intent of putting together a bit of a sidecountry/messaround in my yard and local powerline trails sort of set up. And for that I have a pair of Black Diamond Boundary Pro 107s mounted with Salomon Shift bindings. However, my question is not about those bindings.

I want to know if the S/Lab MTN boots will work with the other bindings in my quiver. I know the S/Lab MTN has a ISO 9523 touring sole... how that relates to gripwalk, WTR, or anything else I have zero clue. My other skis have either a Look SPX12, or a Look Pivot 14 on them, I've used Look bindings forever and love them, I don't plan on switching brands anytime soon for my main alpine binding. Both of which have the "Dual" toes with the adjustable sliding AFD and both bindings physically fit the S/Lab boots. Now where I am getting confused is from my google searching that has come across statements that say things like the ISO 9523 touring sole on the S/Labs is just the WTR sole with more rubber and lacking the hard plastic that normally rests on the AFD. I have also come across statements along the lines of as long as the toe has a sliding AFD, it'll work fine. I have also found ones that say even if it fits, its not certified and you will break your leg if you sneeze wrong.

I'm already pretty sure the real answer is "No, don't try to use those boots in the Look bindings on your other skis, you will break your leg and die." But I honestly could use a breakdown of the how and why of that answer (If it is indeed the correct one).
 

jmeb

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If that thread is too long for you, here is the relevant info to your situation.

- No -- the mtn lab boot is not certified in the look binding.
- WTR / Gripwalk both assume a hard plastic afd on the boot, the mtn lab doesn't have that.
- Yes you may be able to shove your boot in there.
- No you shouldn't expect it to release reliably or consistently.
 

Rod9301

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If that thread is too long for you, here is the relevant info to your situation.

- No -- the mtn lab boot is not certified in the look binding.
- WTR / Gripwalk both assume a hard plastic afd on the boot, the mtn lab doesn't have that.
- Yes you may be able to shove your boot in there.
- No you shouldn't expect it to release reliably or consistently.
Pretty easy to test on a bench though
 
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firebanex

firebanex

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If that thread is too long for you, here is the relevant info to your situation.

- No -- the mtn lab boot is not certified in the look binding.
- WTR / Gripwalk both assume a hard plastic afd on the boot, the mtn lab doesn't have that.
- Yes you may be able to shove your boot in there.
- No you shouldn't expect it to release reliably or consistently.

Thank you, that sums up exactly what I wanted to confirm. Especially your second point, I did not realize that what I was reading was referring to a bit on the boot itself and not the sliding AFD on the toe piece itself.

Pretty easy to test on a bench though
Easy for a normal person? or easy for a shop with fancy tools to check it with?
 

jmeb

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Easy for a normal person? or easy for a shop with fancy tools to check it with?

If you're a normal Pugskier with a Vermont calibration system on your home bench, a normal person can do it. ;)

But yes, typically only a shop with fancy tools would test. Even then you may have to ask in your nicest voice or bring them a sixer and sign a liability waiver as most shops will not test boots that aren't certified with a binding.

Worth keeping in mind that a test on a bench is not the end all and be all. There are factors which impact release characteristics that aren't replicated on a bench. And these factors -- when mixed with AT boots -- tend to cause inconsistent release. Read the thread if you want to know more.
 
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firebanex

firebanex

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I'm not -quite- there with the shop set up yet! While I do have some actual binding jigs and other specialized skiing tools, I don't have one of those calibration systems or a big enough torque wrench to think about creating my own. Honestly, I'm not sure my local shops would even be able to test that sort of thing, never heard of a binding release test until I was a part of this site anyways.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to try skiing with these boots in my pivots, I have a regular set of Lange XT130s for them anyways. I value the safety of my body too much to risk an injury from incompatible boots and bindings.
 

jmeb

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Honestly, I'm not sure my local shops would even be able to test that sort of thing, never heard of a binding release test until I was a part of this site anyways.

I would bet they do. They just don't talk about it. Not testing binding release if you are mounting and adjusting bindings for a consumer would immediately revoke their indemnification provided by binding manufacturers.
 

ted

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Anyone thinking of doing this should read the Jeff Campbell research paper on this exact subject. The combos may pass the Vermont calibrator, but when subjected to real life stresses which are more realistically tested with the ASTM standards there is a lot of failures.
Despite the thinking that a sliding AFD provides the best release with a rubber sole, most of the ones he tested failed.

Info here with comments by Author-
https://www.wildsnow.com/21152/ski-binding-release-avalanche-safety/

Full Article here-
https://digital.lib.washington.edu/...ington_0250E_16657.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
 

neonorchid

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Anyone thinking of doing this should read the Jeff Campbell research paper on this exact subject. The combos may pass the Vermont calibrator, but when subjected to real life stresses which are more realistically tested with the ASTM standards there is a lot of failures.
Despite the thinking that a sliding AFD provides the best release with a rubber sole, most of the ones he tested failed.

Info here with comments by Author-
https://www.wildsnow.com/21152/ski-binding-release-avalanche-safety/

Full Article here-
https://digital.lib.washington.edu/...ington_0250E_16657.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
If I'm not mistaken, the new 2018/19 Look Pivot 12 AW (Grip Walk), and Pivot 14 AW (Grip Walk), bindings did away with the previous Pivot _ _ WTR sliding AFD. Pivot _ _ AW's now have a fixed AFD.
 

ScottB

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I have some personal experience with this subject. I am AT boot shopping and just decided between the Salomon S/Lab Mtn and the Atomic Hawx XTD. I liked this years S/lab better than the Atomic, but I bought the Atomic because of the WTR sole and the issues you are facing. I brought in two pairs of skis to the shop and tried both boots in: Salomon STH2 WTR bindings and Tyrollia Attack2 DIN bindings. Neither boot would fit in the Attack binding, the toe as too high or you could say the AFD would not adjust low enough. The STH2 fit the Atomic boot well and is certified for use. The Slab would not fit in the binding, although I was able to jam it in there. I would not ski it this way. Again the adjustment range of the AFD was not enough. The rocker on the sole of the Slab effects the height the AFD needs to be at (very low compared to the top of the toe). Then you have the issure of the rubber sole on the AFD, which is why I thought the MNC compatible bindings have sliding AFD's. Maybe not all do? Anyway, the toe to AFD gap needs to larger for a touring sole and then you have to address the rubber sole friction issue to the AFD, I am not sure how the MNC bindings take care of that. I really liked the feel of the Slab, but it would only work with my new AT skis with Atomic shift bindings. I didn't want to have to buy new MNC bindings for my other skis so I could use the new boots in them. I have two pairs of STH2's so they will go on skis I want to use the Atomics on. I do have Lange race boots to use on my downhill quiver, so I don't need to use the new boots on all my skis, just select ones.

If you really want to use your Slab's on other skis, you should buy some MNC bindings and mount them, in my opinion.
 

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