School me on Skins

[Primoz]

Thanks for the advice. I toured today without waxing the new Pomocas. I was expecting to have more glide from them. They gripped incredibly well; never slipped even once and had to deal with some fairly steep ascents. I think I'm going to wax them before my next uphill on Friday; all in the name of science just to see if I notice a significant difference. After all, I'm the consummate ski gear tester...

Regardless of skin, there's never going to be glide that you are used to. I spent all my life on xc skis (race xc skis, not xc skis that some here consider as xc skis ), and I'm used to glide that you have on classic xc skis, where even when going uphill, you are gliding for meters on ski. With ski touring skis, you get some half meter or 1 meter glide when going on flat in diagonal stride (xc skiing vocabulary, so might be different name for ski touring), and you consider this as awesome glide. Normal thing is basically walking with no gliding.
I admit I never used those race skimo skins, which are faster, but even when looking those skimo guys, they don't glide like xc skiers do. So I think your expectations were just too high, and glide was most likely fine

 

[Steve]

I canceled a skin about 10 days ago and the skins have been on my skis ever since. Is that bad? Should I hot wax those skis?

 

[ScottB]

I was told or read you should not let your skins sit on the skis for a long time, like days. I don't know why, but I suspect its because the glue can transfer to the ski if left on too long. I don't mean all the glue, just in random spots. That is what happened to me when I left them on for the better part of a week. I had to use ski base cleaner to get the glue residue off the bottom of the ski. I did crayon on some wax to the ski just to make sure they didn't stick to the snow in spots.

 

[In2h2o]

Gunter Glieben Glauchen Globen

My hütte-zua skifell 2 from Doghammer arrived
Went with the suggested recreational fit, probably could have gone down .5 in size they are hand made and individual, very toasty and I love the cork bottom.
Really easy transaction, if they are sold out thats it for that slipper/ size, the new stock will be available next fall.

 

[ScottB]

I do think skins break in after 1/2 dozen uses and get to their best glide performance. I also think snow conditions make a difference for glide and for the need to wax. It seems soft packed snow (as found on a warm resort day) doesn't give much glide, not matter what. I came from xcountry and thought my new AT setup felt like snow shoes at first. Exactly the same thing as @Noodler describes. After breaking in and waxing, got to the 1 meter of glide, which still seems small to me but is probably as good as it will get. When doing a small downhill with skins on, that is where I notice bad glide the most. If its really really bad, its good because I just walk down hill instead of sliding.

 

[ScottB]

There's many ways to fold skins and everyone seems to have a different one. I use the mesh separators that came with my skins and apply when I ripped 1/2 the skin off. Here is the video of the technique without using the mesh. My Black Diamond skins have such sticky glue that sticking them to themselves is hard to undo. My new contours have less sticky glue and I do exactly as in the video. I like keeping the skin stuck to the ski as much as possible to prevent the wind taking it for a ride. Whatever way appeals to you is the way to go.

 

[Steve]

This is the method I use. It was hard to learn how to do it, just didn't get it from watching the video, but once I did it a few times it makes sense and works well.

 

[Slim]

I canceled a skin about 10 days ago and the skins have been on my skis ever since. Is that bad? Should I hot wax those skis?

It might be bad. Depends on the glue type, and how warm it was where they sat.
Pull them off and check the glue on the skins. Then check the skis, you might need to do a bit of hotscrape and wax, if you got glue stuck to your bases, no big deal. Bigger worry is pulling glue off the skins, and needing to touch up or reglue them...

 

[Steve]

It was in a cold garage. They came off ok. We’ll see.

 

[Steve]

The skis I'm not worried about, I'll clean and wax them.

How do I check the glue on the skins though?

 

[Noodler]

I waxed my skins last night before skinning up this morning. I learned some very valuable lessons in the process. First, when waxing skins, if you're using the crayon method with an iron to quickly heat the wax bar before rubbing on the skin, be careful to not let any hot wax drip off the iron onto the skins. To my great disappointment, I learned that the hot melted wax drops will actually melt the plush. Damn. So now one of my new skins has a bunch of melted out circles, but they didn't seem to impact the skin much (at least that I could tell).

Second, waxing skins is like a freaking miracle. The glide that I was expecting the first time out, magically showed up this morning with the waxed skins. I would liken this to skiing on unwaxed skis vs. waxed skis. The difference is so obvious that I'm not sure why a lot of the ski touring instruction I've reviewed doesn't emphasize just how important it is to wax your skins. The reduction in the friction made for a very pleasant uphill journey.

 

[ScottB]

I use liquid wax, probably not as good, but easier and safer. I don't understand why waxing isn't promoted more. Maybe it's like a secret fishing spot.

 

[Primoz]

@Noodler I honestly don't feel difference between waxed and unwaxed skins, and I (still) have ability to tell which wax or structure is 1% faster on xc skis then the other, just skiing skis not testing stuff with watch, so this sounds quite strange. Only time you can really see difference is in certain snow, when snow doesn't stuck to skins. But if it makes difference for you, that's all that matters

 

[ScottB]

I had same experience as @Noodler, except I didn't use my iron and just rubbed the wax in with a cork. I do think the snow condition makes a big difference in glide in general and if the wax shows a big improvement. I think brand new skin versus broken in skin is also a factor. Both Noodler and I are pretty new to skinning, so we may be paying attention to little things that get overlooked with experience?? Or in my case, I can feel and tune into the resistance of my skin as it slides on the snow as I stride forward. It makes a difference in my stamina due to less conditioning than ideal (I mean I need to get in better shape).

 

[Noodler]

@Noodler I honestly don't feel difference between waxed and unwaxed skins, and I (still) have ability to tell which wax or structure is 1% faster on xc skis then the other, just skiing skis not testing stuff with watch, so this sounds quite strange. Only time you can really see difference is in certain snow, when snow doesn't stuck to skins. But if it makes difference for you, that's all that matters

Could just be the skins I have. Obviously I have very little experience with this so I will default to those with many more laps under their belt.

 

[charlier]

Interesting thread, with many opinions. My personal preference - I rarely wax my skis during the winter month ski season. Since I am backcountry skiing 4-5 days per week, with a 4:15 am wakeup. At home, I dry out my gear, pack my gear, eat dinner, and fall asleep. FYI, At home, I put my skins on my skis in the morning, so I do not have to deal with them in the parking lot at 6am. I always take the skins off after skiing and dry the skins on a laundry rack overnight.

In the spring, I wax my skis with a mix of yellow and red wax for warm weather volcano skiing. I never have waxed my skins ever. After say 20 days, I might refresh the glue with a hot iron and parchment paper. This re-distributes the glue to the edges of the skin. I use Pomoca Free Pro 2.0 V2 skins. Everyone has their own system.

 

[Noodler]

So I pulled the trigger today on a new set of Pomoca Free Pro 2.0 skins to replace the Climb Pro S-Glide skins that I was using with my Fischer 108 skis. The Free Pro skins are lighter and have much better glide. They actually are rated by Pomoca as having better glide than their 100% Mohair model the Climb Pro Mohair. Since the 108 skis have a lot of surface area, they don't need a skin with the ultimate grip, so that made the decision to go with the Free Pro model easier. Unfortunately I couldn't find any in stock in the U.S. so I had to order them from a shop in France. Shipping wasn't obscene and they should be here in about 10 days.

With that order placed, I could then take the Climb Pro S-Glide skins and re-cut them for my smaller/narrower skis. I weighed a bunch of my skis and was surprised to find that my Stockli 2017 SR95 skis are actually pretty light. So I cut the skins for those skis. This time I used the soapy water and the cuts were much smoother. Then I used @Slim's tip to use a soldering iron and seared the skin edges. I had an old ski base repair iron with the large flat tip and that turned out to be perfect for the job. Searing the edges was money. The skins now look professionally finished like they were made for the skis. Thanks @Slim! I'll take this new setup out for a spin on Monday or Tuesday morning.

 

[Ken_R]

I have never waxed my skins. It should help with glopping during warmer weather though. During very cold weather I dont think it matters much with skins like the Pomoca.

This is a good article on that:

Climbing Skins - Easy Tips to Keep 'Em Touring - The Backcountry Ski Touring Blog

Care and maintenance of your ski touring climbing skins needn't be rocket science. Here, best practices for drying, storing and maintaining your skins.

www.wildsnow.com

 

[Slim]

Regarding shopping AT gear, I had great luck with Telemarkpyrenees.com. They ship super fast. And know their stuff.
The pack I wanted was out of stock in the size I needed in the US stores.
Got it in 5 days (over the weekend) from them.

 

[ScottB]

I use the mesh on my BD skins to keep them seperated, the glue is super sticky. I cut it half the length of the skin and fold the skin back on the other side. This will prevent the glue from drying out over time. I am surprised the article didn't suggest this.