Seriously, what's wrong with people?

[Lauren]

What is it about casual bike riders in the NE and riding against traffic? Every time my nephew comes down from MA I have to spend a week getting him to stay on his side of the road. And his father is worse.

My best guess would be that there is some comfort in being able to see a car coming at you rather than them surprising you from behind. If I was never taught as a kid that you ride with traffic and walk against it, I'm not sure there's enough common sense in the rule to really figure it out on your own.

I think driver's ed should cover biking etiquette/laws/rules (I think they do cover some, but not enough, IMHO). Drivers should better understand cyclists' movements and how to co-exist safely.

 

[cantunamunch]

My best guess would be that there is some comfort in being able to see a car coming at you rather than them surprising you from behind. If I was never taught as a kid that you ride with traffic and walk against it, I'm not sure there's enough common sense in the rule to really figure it out on your own.

I think there is enough common sense in the rule if we assume that the pedestrian undertakes the obligation to step to their left. Which the cyclist simply cannot do. (Skaters can, but let's not start that hare).

Without that obligation, it is nonsensical, I agree.

 

[skibob]

My best guess would be that there is some comfort in being able to see a car coming at you rather than them surprising you from behind. If I was never taught as a kid that you ride with traffic and walk against it, I'm not sure there's enough common sense in the rule to really figure it out on your own.

I think driver's ed should cover biking etiquette/laws/rules (I think they do cover some, but not enough, IMHO). Both all drivers better understand cyclists' movements and how to co-exist safely.

I occasionally have a rider coming at me in the bike lane. I growl "I'm not yielding" and watch them scramble for the sidewalk. When they come alongside, I tell them to ride WITH traffic. Just the dumbest, most avoidable thing.

 

[KevinF]

I haven't read this entire thread...

An anecdote though that I've mentioned before. I was on a road cycling tour in Wyoming back in 2005. We were riding over Endless Mountain Pass. I hadn't seen a car, a house, an intersection or any sign of humanity for about two hours when I saw a car coming down the pass. So I waved, figuring we might be the last two people on the planet.

Their response was to lean out the window and flip me the bird. Like, I'm in the other lane! There's nobody in front of you for 15 miles! There is NOTHING out here!

As for the local scene; I live between Boston and Worcester, although I'm substantially closer to Worcester. Still, I'm in between the two largest cities in New England. There are very few multi-use bike paths, bike lanes are so few as to be essentially non-existent, and New England patented the idea that country roads shouldn't be straight for more than 100 yards -- i.e., sight lines to pass a cyclist aren't great. If I felt the danger of road riding surpassed the benefits, I'd quit riding. Maybe I'm being naive, but I haven't quit yet. I don't feel like I suffer a preponderance of unsafe passes.

 

[LiquidFeet]

It's always been my understanding that pedestrians should walk against traffic and cyclists should bike with traffic. Is there anyone here who disagrees?

Here's the relevant part of the Massachusetts law from https://www.mass.gov/doc/laws-for-bicyclists-and-motorists-in-the-presence-of-bicyclists/download


Bicyclists have the right to use all public ways in this state except limited access or express state highways where signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted. When riding on public ways, bicyclists must obey the same basic traffic laws and regulations that apply to motor vehicle operators. The rules for bicycles (including amendments) are listed here.

Laws for Bicyclists and Motorists in the Presence of Bicyclists (as amended by Chapter 525 of the Acts of 2008)
• You can use the full lane anywhere, anytime, and on any street (except limited access or express state highways where signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted), even if there is a bike lane.
• You must bike in the same direction as traffic unless otherwise indicated by signs or markings.
• You must stop at red lights and stop signs.
• You can keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle moving in the travel lane and you can move to the front of an intersection at stop lights.

 

[Andy Mink]

Most of my concerns with road riders are not from BICYCLISTS, they're from PEOPLE RIDING BIKES. Just like there are skiers and people who ski. I see college students come down off the side streets in the travel lane, swerve into the pedestrian crosswalk, zip across a main arterial, then back into the travel lane. If they want to use the crosswalk they *should* be getting off the bike and walking; heck, it's in the name "crossWALK". Or, they stop at the stop sign and cross as a vehicle.

I see many bike riders going the wrong way in the bike lanes when there are arrows, on the ground, that give a great big hint on which way to travel. This is especially dangerous for the rider when they are crossing side streets. Car drivers aren't expecting something coming that fast from the right, right next to the sidewalk. If you can't figure that out perhaps it's time to stay home!

One question I have, and it's not intended to start WWIII...when cyclists are in the travel lane (I agree they have that right), at what point are they required to pull over and let faster traffic pass? You see this around Lake Tahoe where there are tons of cyclists and cars backed up behind them. If I'm driving and causing traffic congestion I can be cited for impeding. Doesn't that work for bikes too?

Be safe out there!

 

[BLiP]

I’m a lifelong cyclist who has been hit by a car (luckily with only minor injuries). That said, when I’m in my car and I see a tourist on a ride share bike with no helmet, I just hold my breath waiting for them to do something stupid. Too many cyclists (especially in urban areas) act like they own the road and ride with zero regard for what is happening around them. Do you feel better and self-justified by flipping the bird to every driver that passes you? Does it matter if you were “right” when the paramedics are pulling you out from the wheel well of a F150? Well … maybe it matters for the lawyers who will take 40% of your estate’s judgment. Defensive driving. It works for both motorist and cyclists.

 

[Tricia]

First let me say, the situation in the OP is horrid. That should never have happened.
I am appauled that people behave like the driver in that scenario.

I'm also appauled that drivers are doing everything while behind the wheel except actually driving.

Texting while walking? So what? Pedestrians don't hit and kill people.

While I agree that pedestrians don't hit and kill people, there is a reason that some cities are changing sidewalks to alert pedestrians that they are nearing the curb or cross walk so that they will look up from their device.
One of the key things my mom taught me when I was a kid was to make eye contact with drivers while crossing the street, always cross at a crosswalk, never between cars and look both ways. That's not the norm these days.

In Reno the police started to crack down on jaywalking a few years ago because there were so many pedestrian deaths simply because people walked out in the middle of the block(not at crosswalk) between cars and the cars driving by didn't have time to stop.
I know I had a few close calls that made me wonder if these people didn't have a mom to teach them to look both ways before crossing the street AND use the crosswalk.

Reno police have also started to pull cars over with distracted drivers. The list of distractions that they will ticket you for includes (but not exclusive to) using the phone, putting on makeup, eating, fiddling with navigation ...

I'd like to emphasize that I put a majority of the respoinsibilty on drivers, and I'm sick about the amount of cyclists who are injured or killed by irresponsible drivers or just plain assholes.

 

[Steve]

We at times cross the street and ride facing traffic when we're about to make a left turn, or turn into our driveway. I always feel self-conscious doing this and usually give the Left Turn hand signal when cars are approaching as if to say "yeah, I know I'm on the wrong side of the street."

 

[Uncle-A]

Your fear is your own and that's legit. But I can't help but scoff at the idea of it a cyclist being at fault for precipitating a heart attack. And trying to relate the fear of dying that so many people have riding with the fear of killing that conscientious drivers may have. Plus, you know, the actual dying is a thing for cyclists and pedestrians and even people in cars. From drivers.

In any case, if your heart is that weak and almost killing someone is scary enough to kill you, don't drive. Really - don't get behind the wheel. You're not safe to other people to be driving while that physically fragile. All sort of other stuff could have you lose control of that high speed big object you're using.

Like I said before, you were not in the car with me. Nearly killing someone with your vehicle is scary. I think we have gone far enough with this debate and we all know no one wins a debate on the internet. So all I can say is ride safe and we will get to ski again next season.

 

[Jilly]

To add to @LiquidFeet's post. I was involved is a small accident a few years ago. In Ontario you can turn right on a red light. So I sitting stopped at the red light. I look both ways as you are not to turn into traffic. All of a sudden there is guy with a bike. WTF did he come from. He was riding his bike on the sidewalk, heading north on the south bound side. So facing traffic, but.....In our city you are not allowed to ride on the sidewalk. After the police were called because said gentlemen had decided he wanted "cash for life" on my insurance plan, the officers said they could charge him with riding his bike the wrong way and on the sidewalk and me with improper RH turn. Nobody got charged.

I still like the pool noodle attached to the seat or rear rack.

 

[LiquidFeet]

What is the pool noodle for?

 

[surfacehoar]

I blame bicycles because most are manufactured in Asia and shipped across the ocean with huge polluting ships, maybe you pay a premium for a locally lower carbon foot print bike and bike parts?

I'm really trying to grasp what you're saying here. Bike manufacturing in Asia is a problem and somehow justifies our dependence on automobiles and the pollution that comes with them?

How many miles would you need to ride a bike to offset that pollution?

 

[Lauren]

What is the pool noodle for?

The best cycling hack is a pool noodle — Quartz (qz.com)

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm really trying to grasp what you're saying here. Bike manufacturing in Asia is a problem and somehow justifies our dependence on automobiles and the pollution that comes with them?

How many miles would you need to ride a bike to offset that pollution?

It's a red herring. Pound for cargo pound, shipping is 10x more efficient than trucks.

Shenzhen to port of Long Beach is a lower carbon footprint than shipping a California bike to NYC.

If he were to get a handmade Italian bike shipped from Genoa to NYC, it would have a lower carbon footprint than getting one made in the Midwest.

 

[dan ross]

I share the road, what scares me as a driver is the bike lanes and the cyclists that use them and still don’t follow the rules. More to the point blowing a traffic light and expecting the vehicle to stop that has a green light. While I never drive to endanger a cyclist or pedestrian I now have a dash cam with front and rear cams to ensure I have done part in ensuring safety and not falsely blamed should an accident happen.

Sharing the road means just that and truthfully it applies to all. Bias it one way or the other and some one gets hurt (unfortunately usually the weaker slower lighter one).

Traffic rules are clear, all need to follow them equally. The question become how can we ensure that so everyone remains safe.

As a cyclist ( not urban anymore) and a driver here in West Los Angeles, I see both sides. A few years ago it was worse . Cyclists running red lights , not stopping at 4 way stops / generally ignoring stop signs and riding in the middle of the street at half the posted speed. While this has abated somewhat, it’s still a concern as a driver. On the flip side, I don’t ride on city streets here anymore- half the drivers are on their phones and the other half are distracted/late/ or have an outsized sense of entitlement. In a car it’s a fair fight on a bike I am at their mercy.

 

[Tricia]

there is a reason that some cities are changing sidewalks to alert pedestrians that they are nearing the curb or cross walk so that they will look up from their device.

I looked up a few articles pertaining to this.

Pedestrians: Look up and look out on Reno roadways | City of Reno Blog

aroundthearch.com

Follow Up: Pedestrian Sidewalk Decals Installed in Northern Nevada - Zero Fatalities

To continue to spread the message of Zero Fatalities and pedestrian safety in Nevada, NDOT (in partnership with City of Reno, City of Sparks, RTC Washoe County, Washoe County School District, and the University of Nevada, Reno) has installed pedestrian sidewalk decals around the Truckee Meadows...

zerofatalitiesnv.com

 

[Steve]

We at times cross the street and ride facing traffic when we're about to make a left turn, or turn into our driveway. I always feel self-conscious doing this and usually give the Left Turn hand signal when cars are approaching as if to say "yeah, I know I'm on the wrong side of the street."

This is a rural State road with wide breakdown lanes btw.

 

[slowrider]

@jt10000 Have YOU ever been in a fatality accident! Obviously the answer is NO. You have no idea what it does to a person for the rest of his/her life. It never goes away,ever.
Mod edit.

 

[François Pugh]

One of the key things my mom taught me when I was a kid was to make eye contact with drivers while crossing the street, always cross at a crosswalk, never between cars and look both ways. That's not the norm these days.

Just a friendly warning about that eye contact thing: eye contact is a fuzzy language; it's all too easy to mistake "I dare you to go ahead!" for "go ahead".