Set of vids showing how the heel pull got into mogul competition

[jack97]

When I think of competitors who have change the sport. Dale Begg Smith comes to mind, leading toward the Torrino games he was blowing away the field with his turns. In the 06 games, his turns were done in the troughs while most of the field were skiing a higher line. Turn scores are judged by applying pressure on the extension and absorption part of the turn. Those that skied the high side would contour the bump during the extension and could not apply that backside pressure. This can be seen in the vid below, Dawson did this several times.




Now we forward to the 10 games. Coaches and competitor who wanted to take the gold will have to ski that lower line in the trough and beat the speed Smith has in the troughs. These guys knew skiing that high line will only get you so much in terms of turn points. Further, this assumes you can score better aerials than what Smith did. So Bilodeau did beat Smith based on speed and air, what can clearly be seen in the later games is the heeling pulling technique @recbumper mentioned. Here's Kingsbury in the latest two Olympics. He's skiing that lower line and you don't see much of the underneath side of the ski when he absorbs. Those tips are driven down fast after he crest the bumps. If you slow mo the side view, those tails are just going up and down. IMO, fascinating evolution of technique.

 

[recbumper]

Thanks Jack, that's really cool.

For interest, the way this early-pull type of absorption made it into our group was that some of our peeps were out at Whistler camp in 2017 and they came back saying hey, they are starting to teach a new method of absorption, with much stronger, earlier & more vertical heel-pull resulting in natural pumping of the ski. So we started working on it locally in the 2017-18 season.

Then I was at camp in 2018 and 19 and this method was being taught. So it seems like it took maybe 5-7 years to spread from the top pros in 2006-2010, then to the point of being coached at camp by '17, and now is thruout the comp world and starting to spread onward to the rec world.

 

[recbumper]

Check out Jonny Moseley in Fistful of Moguls clip --



Jonny at 9:55 -- "Moguls form because people ski, so you gotta learn to deal. And that's what's mogul skiing's all about. We're just like...the racecar drivers of mogul skiing... We're just trying to push the limits of how you can actually ski. So the recreational skier will... become more and more... efficient in their skiing, by way of us experimenting every day... Whoa! Dude!"

Plake at 14:30 -- "We're comin' at ya!"

 

[James]

So does Mosely’s “jump to the outside foot” over the top mix with the heel lift or are they separate worlds?

 

[recbumper]

Well, the heel-pull and the Early weightshift are definitely compatible. I think you might say that the turn initiation by the weightshift has evolved to a smaller smoother quicker movement, more like a nudge of the New Hip over onto the New Ski than a big jump.

On the Early weightshift, the goal (point in space) is exactly the same spot that Jonny talks about, i.e. you want to have your weight fully on the new ski when the New Foot is right at or just before the crest (at least for rec skiers - comp skiers sometimes want zero or just beyond the crest for more speed..) The motion to get your weight there may be smoother among top comp skiers these days than awhile back.

2 drills that can help feel this are the Low-High projection drill (that may kindof take the place of the jump Jonny talks about), and also the Freedom Of Center drill where you can really feel how moving your center around can load each boottongue and foot differently depending on how you move/nudge your Center around.

<my silly 2c rec perception>

Mogul Skiing Drills | KMS

www.killingtonmountainschool.org

 

[Mike King]

That's some phenomenal skiing in Fistful of Moguls. I don't see many folk on the mountain who can ski that way. Sad.

I'd love to be able to do that. At 64, not much chance of that...

 

[James]

That's some phenomenal skiing in Fistful of Moguls. I don't see many folk on the mountain who can ski that way. Sad.

I'd love to be able to do that. At 64, not much chance of that...

You can buy a powder ski, but buying a mogul ski won’t get you much. Which is why they’re so rare.

 

[Noodler]

That's some phenomenal skiing in Fistful of Moguls. I don't see many folk on the mountain who can ski that way. Sad.

I'd love to be able to do that. At 64, not much chance of that...

One of my ski buddies is your age. You probably get more ski days than he does. I've been helping him learn the heels to ass move and getting the timing right to take the hit out of the incoming mogul face. It is absolutely possible to ski moguls fast and smooth, but you need some low angle mogul fields to learn without fear of injury. He's doing really well with picking up on the rhythm needed to keep the impact to his body to a minimum.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

I have been dying to ask this question: Is absorption like riding a galloping horse (say with an English saddle) such that you suspend your body with your knees by your boots in the stirrups and therefore your butt doesn't slap the saddle but hovers above it and the horse, like a sine wave falls and rises below you?

If this is true, Mike we can learn to do this without harming our knees.

 

[recbumper]

That sounds kindof right and fun.

Absorption when you get it right is a very soft feeling, hopefully even softer than riding a horse.

Here's a bit of a description from weird mental internals...
The suspension points are the ski tips, and the hip joint. The knees are almost irrelevant and don't get any impact <unless you do it wrong... ouch! > The ski tips hit and are the suspension point at the ground. The skis are this soft shock absorber-lever in front of you that kindof goes woing-woing and softens things. The quads go through a strong, eccentric release (fundamentally, a relaxation). The body hangs in the hips (second suspension point). The active motion is a fast, direct pull upward with the hamstrings, through a large, fast upward range of motion. You don't need to anticipate the hit with your knees, you anticipate the hit with your upward heel-pull, which is of course largely opposite/away from the incoming bump so it further softens things. The knees basically never feel anything, they just happen to be a pivot point around which the heels are moving.

An interesting difference from riding a horse is that to stand in the stirrups you have to press downward at least part of the time (cause you're standing). In absorption in moguls, you're never even pressing down, it's mostly pullfast-pullfast-pullfast with hamstrings simultaneously with <actually half-beat ahead of> relax-relax-relax [quads] <OK yes on the extension you extend your feet downward just a hair [press], but you're extending while in free-fall/backside so it's not extending against any resistance>

I dunno if that's any help...

<oh yes and did I mention it's Totally Addictive when you get it...? hahaha ennndorrphinzzz>

 

[jack97]

That's some phenomenal skiing in Fistful of Moguls. I don't see many folk on the mountain who can ski that way. Sad.

I'd love to be able to do that. At 64, not much chance of that...

Over the years, I have talked to (mogul) campers. Some have told me they have had campers over 64.

 

[jack97]

On the Early weightshift, the goal (point in space) is exactly the same spot that Jonny talks about, i.e. you want to have your weight fully on the new ski when the New Foot is right at or just before the crest (at least for rec skiers - comp skiers sometimes want zero or just beyond the crest for more speed..) The motion to get your weight there may be smoother among top comp skiers these days than awhile back.

Back when Mosely was competing, those skiers were carrying speed. Hence lots of momentum into the face. Once can easily freeze while on that downhill leg and not get early on his turn. His visualization or mental cue was "jumping" my cue is "explode" off that old leg.

 

[jack97]

From Chuck's FB page. I typically do not like comparing skiers on different courses, the formation, steepness and conditions are totally different but you can see the contrast of techniques back then to now.

 

[Mike King]

I've been experimenting with the heel pull move. It works, but currently I can either do the heel pull move or absorption. Absorption has a much greater positive impact on my mogul skiing that the heel pull move with my current level of coordination. Something to work on -- oh wait, there's a bunch of those. Yeah, wedge Christies -- examiner said I didn't know how to do those either...

 

[James]

This is fun. First mogul comp in the Olympics. The finals, where it’s snowing hard. I happened to see a documentary on Edgar Grospiron on tv. When it was snowing so hard for those finals, the French organizers asked him if he wanted to race that day. Presumably if he didn’t they would have postponed it.

 

[Mike King]

This is fun. First mogul comp in the Olympics. The finals, where it’s snowing hard. I happened to see a documentary on Edgar Grospiron on tv. When it was snowing so hard for those finals, the French organizers asked him if he wanted to race that day. Presumably if he didn’t they would have postponed it.

wow.

 

[locknload]

I've been experimenting with the heel pull move. It works, but currently I can either do the heel pull move or absorption. Absorption has a much greater positive impact on my mogul skiing that the heel pull move with my current level of coordination. Something to work on -- oh wait, there's a bunch of those. Yeah, wedge Christies -- examiner said I didn't know how to do those either...

Are you making a differentiation between heel pull and absorption? Is the heel pull the "how" and the absorption is the "what"? Am I confused?

 

[Noodler]

Are you making a differentiation between heel pull and absorption? Is the heel pull the "how" and the absorption is the "what"? Am I confused?

I don't make a distinction because in that one move (heels to the butt) you get both the pullback to re-center your fore/aft and the absorption. You also get the tips pressed down the backside of the mogul. It's probably the best bang-for-the-buck movement in mogul technique.

 

[SSSdave]

Heavenly has good numbers of smooth bump skiers into their seventh and like me, eighth decades. Most of us began skiing decades ago when our mountains were most pimpled before much grooming occurred. One needs to have a bag of mind game tools that flow from within that is not something understood by individual skier's biomechanically that depend on snow, slope condition, and individual neural plasticity evolved skills.

For example, when steep large bumps are firm and icy I often use a slower billy goat direct fall line gravity style brutalizing ugly spines while when they are packed powder a faster smoother style. Although in packed powder I will sometimes absorb and pressure skis shovels downward extending beyond trough knees and spines in bumps, I personally at that instant more often orient the plane of skis to somewhat match the plane of the next surface to be compressed against so that my skis will slide edging at an attack angle through smoothly with less forces. That requires a familiar feel of muscle and body motor control that flows from what my eyes see and body feels without thinking. Am amazed at how smoothly relaxed one can flow through such ridiculously uneven terrain when in the zone.

 

[Mike King]

Are you making a differentiation between heel pull and absorption? Is the heel pull the "how" and the absorption is the "what"? Am I confused?

I haven't mastered it, so I'm ill-informed. When I absorb, it is an action that is less proactive than the heel pull. It may also be that I'm not pulling the heels sufficiently. So I need more time working on it, but right now I'm working on my short turns.