Sharing the trail with hikers and horses

Tricia

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We've had some intersting discussion come up in the Mountain Bike 2020 Stoke thread about sharing the trails with hikers.
This is important discussion so its been moved to this thread.
 

AmyPJ

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I had an interesting experience this morning with some obviously very jaded hikers while descending one of my favorite descents (Sardine.) I had come across a guy climbing who alerted me to some hikers ahead a couple hundred yards. Now, mind you, I have already started to slow down on this ride anymore because of the incredible increase in trail users, so, I slowed down even MORE because I knew there were some hikers ahead. Came around a corner quite slowly because I could see the dust being kicked up, so knew they were close, and got yelled at to "slow down!" while the guy repeatedly KICKED out at me! My first instinct honestly was to get the hell out of there, but I did tell him that I HAD slowed down but then I got accosted by who I assume was his wife (older couple) who proceeded to yell obscenities as I went by. Mind you, I ride with a Timber bell, which is quite loud, and especially compared to other riders, I am NOT that fast. I yelled at them, "I know you heard my bell and I don't ride that fast!" I almost went back to let them know that their attitudes are most unwelcome, but then realized that some people are just really angry in general and that I'd get assaulted or at the very least it would do absolutely no good. I was pretty rattled especially by the guy who could have either gotten really hurt or whom I could have really hurt because he decided kicking out in front of me then at me as I went by was a grand idea. I'm thinking he's of the same mindset as the person who drives below the speed limit in the left lane because he's decided people are driving too fast. I think that these people believe that bikers should...walk? Or go 5 MPH on the descent. Good luck with that on Sardine.

That being said, I used to go ride the same trail on a weekday morning and there might have been 3 cars in the parking lot. Today? At least 20. Interesting times we are living in. Oh, I got told "YOU'RE WELCOME" the other day when descending fairly slowly by some hikers where I had to drop some roots and then some fairly big rocks. They had stepped aside and I thanked them twice, but apparently they didn't hear me so of course had to let me know what a jackass I was. :rolleyes:
People are just unnerved these days. I've tried to be extra super friendly this year because we're ALL unnerved and feeling the pinch in trail use, but that friendliness is not always returned.

I do wish that Snowbasin would cut some new trails, some being dedicated for bikes, and some being downhill dedicated. 3000 acres and we basically have three loops to ride especially for those of us who don't have all day to climb way up into the resort. They could peel away Deer Valley riders if they built the trails properly. Word would get out and people would make the extra trip easily, I think.
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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Out here, some of the more popular trails are split between odd and even days. Hiking and horseback riding on odd days of the month, MTB on even days.
Maybe that could be a solution for your trails
:huh:
 

ZionPow

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I had an interesting experience this morning with some obviously very jaded hikers while descending one of my favorite descents (Sardine.) I had come across a guy climbing who alerted me to some hikers ahead a couple hundred yards. Now, mind you, I have already started to slow down on this ride anymore because of the incredible increase in trail users, so, I slowed down even MORE because I knew there were some hikers ahead. Came around a corner quite slowly because I could see the dust being kicked up, so knew they were close, and got yelled at to "slow down!" while the guy repeatedly KICKED out at me! My first instinct honestly was to get the hell out of there, but I did tell him that I HAD slowed down but then I got accosted by who I assume was his wife (older couple) who proceeded to yell obscenities as I went by. Mind you, I ride with a Timber bell, which is quite loud, and especially compared to other riders, I am NOT that fast. I yelled at them, "I know you heard my bell and I don't ride that fast!" I almost went back to let them know that their attitudes are most unwelcome, but then realized that some people are just really angry in general and that I'd get assaulted or at the very least it would do absolutely no good. I was pretty rattled especially by the guy who could have either gotten really hurt or whom I could have really hurt because he decided kicking out in front of me then at me as I went by was a grand idea. I'm thinking he's of the same mindset as the person who drives below the speed limit in the left lane because he's decided people are driving too fast. I think that these people believe that bikers should...walk? Or go 5 MPH on the descent. Good luck with that on Sardine.

That being said, I used to go ride the same trail on a weekday morning and there might have been 3 cars in the parking lot. Today? At least 20. Interesting times we are living in. Oh, I got told "YOU'RE WELCOME" the other day when descending fairly slowly by some hikers where I had to drop some roots and then some fairly big rocks. They had stepped aside and I thanked them twice, but apparently they didn't hear me so of course had to let me know what a jackass I was. :rolleyes:
People are just unnerved these days. I've tried to be extra super friendly this year because we're ALL unnerved and feeling the pinch in trail use, but that friendliness is not always returned.

I do wish that Snowbasin would cut some new trails, some being dedicated for bikes, and some being downhill dedicated. 3000 acres and we basically have three loops to ride especially for those of us who don't have all day to climb way up into the resort. They could peel away Deer Valley riders if they built the trails properly. Word would get out and people would make the extra trip easily, I think.
You handled it better than I would have! I had an angry jogger intentionally move to my side of a wide trail to bump me after I had slowed down and moved over for him. I offered him a nice WTF and kept going because I could not believe he did it on purpose.
 

Philpug

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I had an interesting experience this morning with some obviously very jaded hikers while descending one of my favorite descents (Sardine.) I had come across a guy climbing who alerted me to some hikers ahead a couple hundred yards. Now, mind you, I have already started to slow down on this ride anymore because of the incredible increase in trail users, so, I slowed down even MORE because I knew there were some hikers ahead. Came around a corner quite slowly because I could see the dust being kicked up, so knew they were close, and got yelled at to "slow down!" while the guy repeatedly KICKED out at me! My first instinct honestly was to get the hell out of there, but I did tell him that I HAD slowed down but then I got accosted by who I assume was his wife (older couple) who proceeded to yell obscenities as I went by. Mind you, I ride with a Timber bell, which is quite loud, and especially compared to other riders, I am NOT that fast. I yelled at them, "I know you heard my bell and I don't ride that fast!" I almost went back to let them know that their attitudes are most unwelcome, but then realized that some people are just really angry in general and that I'd get assaulted or at the very least it would do absolutely no good. I was pretty rattled especially by the guy who could have either gotten really hurt or whom I could have really hurt because he decided kicking out in front of me then at me as I went by was a grand idea. I'm thinking he's of the same mindset as the person who drives below the speed limit in the left lane because he's decided people are driving too fast. I think that these people believe that bikers should...walk? Or go 5 MPH on the descent. Good luck with that on Sardine.

That being said, I used to go ride the same trail on a weekday morning and there might have been 3 cars in the parking lot. Today? At least 20. Interesting times we are living in. Oh, I got told "YOU'RE WELCOME" the other day when descending fairly slowly by some hikers where I had to drop some roots and then some fairly big rocks. They had stepped aside and I thanked them twice, but apparently they didn't hear me so of course had to let me know what a jackass I was. :rolleyes:
People are just unnerved these days. I've tried to be extra super friendly this year because we're ALL unnerved and feeling the pinch in trail use, but that friendliness is not always returned.

I do wish that Snowbasin would cut some new trails, some being dedicated for bikes, and some being downhill dedicated. 3000 acres and we basically have three loops to ride especially for those of us who don't have all day to climb way up into the resort. They could peel away Deer Valley riders if they built the trails properly. Word would get out and people would make the extra trip easily, I think.
There is no place in the mountains for mountain biking.
 

AmyPJ

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Out here, some of the more popular trails are split between odd and even days. Hiking and horseback riding on odd days of the month, MTB on even days.
Maybe that could be a solution for your trails
:huh:
This has been proposed many times. Something about forest service land, can't do it, yadayadayada. I would LOVE it if they did that, and made it directional.

You handled it better than I would have! I had an angry jogger intentionally move to my side of a wide trail to bump me after I had slowed down and moved over for him. I offered him a nice WTF and kept going because I could not believe he did it on purpose.
Trust me, had I not been alone, things might have gone differently. Although again, I don't think more words would have done any good. We (meaning 4 of us) DID get run off the trail last week by 2 riders coming down Green Pond. I won't yield when I'm climbing and the gal I was riding with got run into the bushes, then @utskier had his handlebars brushed (he had words with the guy.) So, unfortunately there are riders out there being jerks giving us all a bad name. This seems to give some people license to be jerks all the time.
Right or wrong, more fuel for the anti-bikers.
As fast as the e-bikers climb, I can see how hikers and runners are now being overtaken very quickly on climbs and it's absolutely adding fuel to their anger. I had one almost catch me last week on a climb--I heard him coming and knew by how fast he was catching up that he was on an e-bike, and I gunned it myself and got to a fire road before he caught me. If I get a bit startled by one while I'm biking, I'm sure a hiker would be even more startled. I honestly think these bikes have too much power. The guy who caught me was clearly on a mission to ride as fast as he could.
 

Wilhelmson

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I had an interesting experience this morning with some obviously very jaded hikers while descending one of my favorite descents (Sardine.) I had come across a guy climbing who alerted me to some hikers ahead a couple hundred yards. Now, mind you, I have already started to slow down on this ride anymore because of the incredible increase in trail users, so, I slowed down even MORE because I knew there were some hikers ahead. Came around a corner quite slowly because I could see the dust being kicked up, so knew they were close, and got yelled at to "slow down!" while the guy repeatedly KICKED out at me! My first instinct honestly was to get the hell out of there, but I did tell him that I HAD slowed down but then I got accosted by who I assume was his wife (older couple) who proceeded to yell obscenities as I went by. Mind you, I ride with a Timber bell, which is quite loud, and especially compared to other riders, I am NOT that fast. I yelled at them, "I know you heard my bell and I don't ride that fast!" I almost went back to let them know that their attitudes are most unwelcome, but then realized that some people are just really angry in general and that I'd get assaulted or at the very least it would do absolutely no good. I was pretty rattled especially by the guy who could have either gotten really hurt or whom I could have really hurt because he decided kicking out in front of me then at me as I went by was a grand idea. I'm thinking he's of the same mindset as the person who drives below the speed limit in the left lane because he's decided people are driving too fast. I think that these people believe that bikers should...walk? Or go 5 MPH on the descent. Good luck with that on Sardine.

That being said, I used to go ride the same trail on a weekday morning and there might have been 3 cars in the parking lot. Today? At least 20. Interesting times we are living in. Oh, I got told "YOU'RE WELCOME" the other day when descending fairly slowly by some hikers where I had to drop some roots and then some fairly big rocks. They had stepped aside and I thanked them twice, but apparently they didn't hear me so of course had to let me know what a jackass I was. :rolleyes:
People are just unnerved these days. I've tried to be extra super friendly this year because we're ALL unnerved and feeling the pinch in trail use, but that friendliness is not always returned.

I do wish that Snowbasin would cut some new trails, some being dedicated for bikes, and some being downhill dedicated. 3000 acres and we basically have three loops to ride especially for those of us who don't have all day to climb way up into the resort. They could peel away Deer Valley riders if they built the trails properly. Word would get out and people would make the extra trip easily, I think.
If someone kicked out at me it would be 50/50 depending on the situation.

The cape cod rail trail is a busy 10 foot wide multiuse trail we used to ride when our kids were young. The spandex dudes would pass by at 30 mph and cuss if my 7 year old happened to veer into their "passing" lane. I would just cuss back.
 

4ster

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Came around a corner quite slowly because I could see the dust being kicked up, so knew they were close, and got yelled at to "slow down!" while the guy repeatedly KICKED out at me!
I had a similar experience last week, timberbell jingling, whistling well ahead of time. This is a multi-use trail on USFS land that was obviously built by MTBers. The hiking couple had stepped off the trail before I got there & I passed them on a slight uphill turn that slowed me even more. As I passed by I gave my usual “thanks, just me”. The guy said in a nasty tone “can you slow down?“. I replied very seriously “YES, I have powerful, high tech, disc brakes with new rotors & pads & lots of practice as I sped away.
As with skiing, speed is relative, all we can do is try to be polite & move on :huh:.
D928F990-FE9F-489F-8917-C02DC3B29C24.jpeg
E95B3A81-6608-4D38-850A-3C1E1E4D0720.jpeg
 

elemmac

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I think that these people believe that bikers should...walk? Or go 5 MPH on the descent.
While this doesn't excuse their rudeness, or the effort they made to kick you (that's awful!)...Uphill travel generally has the right of way. Some trail systems have a defined set of rules, others just go by rule of thumb.

I've always been taught:
Downhill bikers yield to uphill bikes (unless you're on a downhill only trail). All bikes yield to hikers. Everyone yields to horses.
 

scott43

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The everyone yields to horses thing depends entirely on the attitude of the rider of the horse... I suspect there are places where people riding horses are much more salt of the earth but around here they are definitely not that...
 

elemmac

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I think the "everyone yields to horses" is a good rule of thumb for the safety of everyone involved. Hikers can step out of the way, or bikers put a foot down pretty easily...but guiding a horse to the side of the trail to let someone pass safely seems a lot more difficult.
 

Ron

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spook a horse and a lot of people, including the horse can be injured. As a hiker, I (we) always move off the trail and let bikes descend and climb. its just easier and its a "win-win" for both parties. it takes 2 seconds to let a bike pass. Its just not a big deal. I do wish more bikers would ride with a bell or make sure they call out they are ahead (descending towards us) or climbing from behind in the woods. Personally, I put a bear bell on my mtn bike since we now have moose and black bear that are seen often on the trails but also provides a warning for bikes and hikers when you can't be seen in the thick aspens and ferns on the switchbacks .
 
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Wilhelmson

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Haha so i am hypothetically out on an ebike and the couple straining uphill with heavy packs on mile 125 of the at or the dad with baby pack have to get out of my way.
 
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Doug Briggs

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Haha so i am hypothetically out on an ebike and the couple straining uphill with heavy packs on mile 125 of the at or the dad with baby pack have to get out of my way.
I know you are joking, but...

Yes, eventually they have to let you pass. What is seldom mentioned is that it should be at their convenience, not a jump out of the way as soon as they see you like most hikers/walkers do. They have the right of way as well as an obligation to allow eventually let you pass. That doesn't mean they have to let you ride by, but in most cases that is the easiest and quickest way to pass them. Most walkers/hikers will get out of the way of a bike when they hear it though.

When I approach a pedestrian I'll have slowed, often to walking speed, and say 'Hello', 'Good Morning' or 'Ding ding!' while I'm still a good distance away from them. I don't have a bell on my bike but I emulate one; yes, I'm a ding-a-ling'. If they haven't acknowledged me and I'm pretty close I finally get their attention I say, 'I'd like to pass where it is convenient for you.' Using more words seem to get work to get their attention when a brief announcement may not.

I did have a case of being chastised for being a rude cyclist by a woman on a trail a couple years back. We met going opposite directions on a level area. I was off my bike letting her walk by. She was elderly (older than me by a decade I'd guess; I was 60 at the time) and the trail was narrow without much of a margin. I responded to her rude remarks, as she walked on the tread past me and I was completely off it, that she ought to be more discriminating about who she complained to as I was obeying the rules and always allow the pedestrian the right of way. That's about as defensive I've gotten to someone. It simply doesn't pay to treat rudeness with rudeness. Mild education at best and 'apologies' (despite doing nothing wrong) work best. I always get in a 'Thank you' as I pass even to the offended ones. I also do my best to announce that people are following me. It gives them info and reduces their opportunity to gripe.
 

Ron

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Haha so i am hypothetically out on an ebike and the couple straining uphill with heavy packs on mile 125 of the at or the dad with baby pack have to get out of my way.
nope, e-bike or a real bike always give way to uphill.
 

Ron

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When I approach a pedestrian I'll have slowed, often to walking speed, and say 'Hello', 'Good Morning' or 'Ding ding!' while I'm still a good distance away from them. I don't have a bell on my bike but I emulate one; yes, I'm a ding-a-ling'. If they haven't acknowledged me and I'm pretty close I finally get their attention I say, 'I'd like to pass where it is convenient for you.' Using more words seem to get work to get their attention when a brief announcement may not.
100%, exactly. its amazing how easy it is just to say hello, have a good day, happy trails (my favorite) to the other party on a bike or hiking. Its just good trail karma and it might just make someones day :thumb:
 

Doug Briggs

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100%, exactly. its amazing how easy it is just to say hello, have a good day, happy trails (my favorite) to the other party on a bike or hiking. Its just good trail karma and it might just make someones day :thumb:
Good manners can pay off in so many ways. I learned this from my sailing instructor decades ago in regards to courtesy on the water.
  1. You might just change someone's opinion; it is much more likely in this type of situation than you might think.
  2. You might be on your ass (or worse) farther down the trail and the person remember's your courtesy and comes to your aid.
  3. If you were polite you can let their anger/frustration/prejudice roll off your back without guilt.
 

Tom K.

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Good manners can pay off in so many ways. I learned this from my sailing instructor decades ago in regards to courtesy on the water.
  1. You might just change someone's opinion; it is much more likely in this type of situation than you might think.
  2. You might be on your ass (or worse) farther down the trail and the person remember's your courtesy and comes to your aid.
  3. If you were polite you can let their anger/frustration/prejudice roll off your back without guilt.
4. And, if you live in a small town, you may see the person again tomorrow in the grocery parking lot!
 

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