Sharing the trail with hikers and horses

[Tricia]

While this doesn't excuse their rudeness, or the effort they made to kick you (that's awful!)...Uphill travel generally has the right of way. Some trail systems have a defined set of rules, others just go by rule of thumb.

I've always been taught:
Downhill bikers yield to uphill bikes (unless you're on a downhill only trail). All bikes yield to hikers. Everyone yields to horses.

nope, e-bike or a real bike always give way to uphill.

I know the uphill rider has the right of way, but to be honest, even if I'm going up hill, if it looks like I have a better place to stop and get going again, I will do so.
Maybe its the Michigan bred "After you." mentality that I grew up with.

I've never had anyone be rude to me on the trails, (except the one guy who said, "effin ebikers" when I stopped off at the side of a trail to take a pictures), so I'm a little surprised by the stories I'm seeing in this thread.

 

[Tricia]

Good manners can pay off in so many ways. I learned this from my sailing instructor decades ago in regards to courtesy on the water.

1. You might just change someone's opinion; it is much more likely in this type of situation than you might think.
2. You might be on your ass (or worse) farther down the trail and the person remember's your courtesy and comes to your aid.
3. If you were polite you can let their anger/frustration/prejudice roll off your back without guilt.

4. And, if you live in a small town, you may see the person again tomorrow in the grocery parking lot!

Right on both posts.
But mostly.....its not that hard to be kind.

Its a small world, you just don't know who you could be talking to. Make sure the words they hear are, "good ride."

 

[AmyPJ]

I had a similar experience last week, timberbell jingling, whistling well ahead of time. This is a multi-use trail on USFS land that was obviously built by MTBers. The hiking couple had stepped off the trail before I got there & I passed them on a slight uphill turn that slowed me even more. As I passed by I gave my usual “thanks, just me”. The guy said in a nasty tone “can you slow down?“. I replied very seriously “YES, I have powerful, high tech, disc brakes with new rotors & pads & lots of practice as I sped away.
As with skiing, speed is relative, all we can do is try to be polite & move on .

Back to some stoke...

One more time on Toads...
View attachment 106745

Still some wildflowers in the meadow...
View attachment 106746

"Can you slow down?" Yes, but that doesn't mean I will! (And yes, I'm being TIC here and very sarcastic.)

While this doesn't excuse their rudeness, or the effort they made to kick you (that's awful!)...Uphill travel generally has the right of way. Some trail systems have a defined set of rules, others just go by rule of thumb.

I've always been taught:
Downhill bikers yield to uphill bikes (unless you're on a downhill only trail). All bikes yield to hikers. Everyone yields to horses.

I'm fully aware of the rules of the trail. They were traveling the same direction, I slowed WAY down, they could hear me coming probably from several hundred yards away. I was about to greet the guy and was smiling when in that nanosecond, he started losing his marbles.

100%, exactly. its amazing how easy it is just to say hello, have a good day, happy trails (my favorite) to the other party on a bike or hiking. Its just good trail karma and it might just make someones day

This is why I got very upset. I go out of MY way to be polite, say thank you, give way when needed, etc. I ALWAYS yield to horses (being a horse person, I get it. We helped a couple of novice riders a couple months ago get their horses turned around to avoid a bridge.) I honestly don't see why on single track in particular, bikers yield to hikers. As one who does both, it is so much easier for a hiker to move to the side, plus, the bikes are going to overtake regardless of if climbing or descending.

I guess I just see this as a mirror of the stresses people are under these days in particular. Which is one reason I'm trying to be even nicer. The couple yesterday were way over the line. I believe I was the unfortunate recipient of their frustrations with other bikers. In addition to the huge increase in rider and hiker traffic, there are a lot of novice riders, including those on e-bikes (which, I'm sorry, give a novice MTBer a big boost of power, and that's not necessarily a good thing--our friend rides one and has had several "woah" moments climbing rocky stuff where she got too much of a boost,) you've got a lot more people who don't know trail etiquette at all, don't know how riding with a bell is extremely helpful and appreciated by those on horseback or foot, or don't even know some of the trails are best ridden a certain direction and that going the other way is at your own risk, and things are just chaotic out there. And yes, that was a massive run-on sentence!

One way trails are so appealing.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Here is some vitriol that carries over to the trail...

Mountain biking destroys habitat for area wildlife

Fortunately it is just a few that are upset with bikers, but when they aim their ire at you, a good trail citizen, it hurts.

I actually hear quite a few stories of bad bikers from good bikers. I've been an uphill rider that was driven off the trail by the lead biker in a group of three and the trailing bikers despite the leader's warning just plowed right through. It was a tight spot and sort of dangerous for them to do so.

My friend that rides as a guide for a local women's Monday night ride tells horror stories of being overtaken on tight, technical, rocky terrain by riders that give zero consideration.

Someone mentioned odd/even days for hikers/bikers which is a great idea conceptually. I won't belabor the issue with details, but on the Front Range where this is pretty much implemented on most trails, it still results in confrontations, mostly from people not taking the time to read the TH signs with the rules.

It's sad that people can't respect one another unilaterally. This is nothing new, though. It is simply human nature.

 

[AmyPJ]

Here is some vitriol that carries over to the trail...

Mountain biking destroys habitat for area wildlife

Fortunately it is just a few that are upset with bikers, but when they aim their ire at you, a good trail citizen, it hurts.

I actually hear quite a few stories of bad bikers from good bikers. I've been an uphill rider that was driven off the trail by the lead biker in a group of three and the trailing bikers despite the leader's warning just plowed right through. It was a tight spot and sort of dangerous for them to do so.

My friend that rides as a guide for a local women's Monday night ride tells horror stories of being overtaken on tight, technical, rocky terrain by riders that give zero consideration.

Someone mentioned odd/even days for hikers/bikers which is a great idea conceptually. I won't belabor the issue with details, but on the Front Range where this is pretty much implemented on most trails, it still results in confrontations, mostly from people not taking the time to read the TH signs with the rules.

It's sad that people can't respect one another unilaterally. This is nothing new, though. It is simply human nature.

From that opinion piece: "Mountain biking is environmentally, socially and medically destructive. There is no good reason to allow bicycles on any unpaved trail."
Socially and medically destructive?

Anyway, yes to the human nature comment. And I agree about the trail use days alternating--there'll always be that ONE person who is ignorant or at least pleads ignorance.

The area I live in is going through a HUGE population explosion, which isn't helping, and we have very limited trails available that are within a twenty minute drive. Throw in slick marketing by Snowbasin to get everyone up there, even on the trails outside of the resort, and, well, everyone is up there.

 

[Ron]

4. And, if you live in a small town, you may see the person again tomorrow in the grocery parking lot!

5. and, you live in a small town, you will most likely see the person again on the trails.

 

[Tricia]

As you can see, I moved the trail etiquette posts to their own thread.
Its an important discussion and shouldn't get lost in the 2020 MTB thread.

 

[Doug Briggs]

As you can see, I moved the trail etiquette posts to their own thread.
Its an important discussion and shouldn't get lost in the 2020 MTB thread.

You guys are so good at keeping us orgranized (sic). ;-) I could put you to work in my office.

 

[ZionPow]

My least favorite situation on the trails is when I try to pass the hiker/jogger/biker with their ear buds blasting their favorite tunes/podcast. They have no idea that I am ringing a bell and politely asking to pass. When they finally see or hear, they jump like they had been shot. What do they expect will happen in this situation

 

[BC.]

Never knew Snowbasin was so crowded......in the winter and now summer too....huh.....”was” always a place to get away from the crowds....

 

[AmyPJ]

My least favorite situation on the trails is when I try to pass the hiker/jogger/biker with their ear buds blasting their favorite tunes/podcast. They have no idea that I am ringing a bell and politely asking to pass. When they finally see or hear, they jump like they had been shot. What do they expect will happen in this situation

I haven't encountered that as much this year as in the past, but yes, it's frustrating and honestly, with the critters that live in those woods, plus the fact that they can't hear other trail users, it's not very safe IMO.
I like listening to myself huff and puff and grunt instead!

 

[AmyPJ]

Never knew Snowbasin was so crowded......in the winter and now summer too....huh.....”was” always a place to get away from the crowds....

It's so close to Ogden, and Ogden is growing like crazy. The funny thing about the trails there is that they're really not that good. Park City trails=good. Targhee trails=good. But, they're home and very close to my house, so that's where I go. And, I've learned to ride rock gardens really well, so there's that bonus.

 

[slowrider]

4. And, if you live in a small town, you may see the person again tomorrow in the grocery parking lot!

Or you crashed/whatever and guess how shows up while your laying in the brush balled in your bike.

 

[Tricia]

You guys are so good at keeping us orgranized (sic). ;-) I could put you to work in my office.

Trying to keep things somewhat searchable.

On the other hand, don't look at my office.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I hate to see people being militant and rigid about any parts of this "code". When someone says "I'll never yield when I'm the uphill climbe" you are just like the hiker that will never yield to you. Me, if I see someone coming I just try to be polite and yield when and where it makes the most sense for both of us.

 

[Lauren]

I honestly don't see why on single track in particular, bikers yield to hikers. As one who does both, it is so much easier for a hiker to move to the side, plus, the bikes are going to overtake regardless of if climbing or descending.

I feel like 90% of the time (at least around my local trails), hikers do end up stopping and stepping off the trail to yield to bikers, because most of the time it makes more sense. However, I think it's a good "rule of thumb" to not make that norm, as long as no one is "militant" (as Erik Timmerman put it) about it. If the "rule" was for hikers to yield to bikers, that kind of gives bikers free range to go as fast as they want because they "have the right of way".

 

[Crank]

I hate to see people being militant and rigid about any parts of this "code". When someone says "I'll never yield when I'm the uphill climbe" you are just like the hiker that will never yield to you. Me, if I see someone coming I just try to be polite and yield when and where it makes the most sense for both of us.

Totally agree with this.

Also, I have never encountered hikers who would not move or who even seemed put out by stepping aside.

More often than not I will stop and move off the trail to let a downhill biker pass. It actually makes more sense to me that the downhill rider should have right of way.

We hike at least as often as we mtb but we usually hike trails that are not mtb trails. We don't do this to avoid bikes. It's just that their are a lot of hiking trails around here that are too steep and rugged for bikes and those are the places we like to hike.

 

[AmyPJ]

I hate to see people being militant and rigid about any parts of this "code". When someone says "I'll never yield when I'm the uphill climbe" you are just like the hiker that will never yield to you. Me, if I see someone coming I just try to be polite and yield when and where it makes the most sense for both of us.

Let me expand on that: as a woman in a male-dominated sport, I hold my line. Of course if a situation arises where it would make more sense for me to stop, I will. I will swing wide on a trail if I have room to so that the rider going downhill can pass while staying on their bike, absolutely. But honestly, after situations like last week when my friend was run into the bushes while we were climbing, with no apologies from the guys descending, I will hold my space. Most riders out here I know are the same. Maybe our trails are different so it makes more sense here. We ride up, up, up, then descend. There aren't a lot of "across the flats" rides here. So, it's very clear in most cases who is climbing. There is never a situation where as the descending rider, I feel that I have the right-of-way.

 

[fatbob]

Wow - sounds like a lot of angry people on all sides. I used to do quite a lot of mountain biking. I'd deliberately go out late in the day to mimise the number of groups of hikers I was likely to encounter but always would slow to only a bit above walking pace when passing them. Likewise now I'm hiking more I'm happy to hold gates for MTBers or stand to the side of the trail and they almost all will slow to an unthreatening pace and greet or thank.

I can't imagine biking in a place where other bikers are the threat.

 

[Andy Mink]

Are these the same people who yell "watch behind you" and "you're in my line" when skiing?