Shiffrin free skiing

[Tim Hodgson]

Apart from what you think about the contributor, what do you think about this contribution:

JB91710
BINGO! Then vast majority of humans are Two Dimensional Reactors instead of Three Dimensional Thinkers. They see feet turning so they say, "Turn your feet" They feel pressure so they say, "Make pressure." They see legs at an angle so they say, "Tip your legs." Thanks ***** for that genius description of what skiing Looks Like instead of teaching people how to ski. All they are doing is bring attention to what parts of the body look and feel like and call that teaching.

 

[dj61]

Nevertheless, that's a very good point: a lot of pros teach outcomes as opposed of teaching inputs - i.e. how to produce the outcome. That generates a lot of this mismatched "turn your feet because I see them turning" kind of thing, imho...

Can you give me two examples of “pros who merely teach outcomes”? I fail to grasp how anyone can teach outcomes? What does “teaching an outcome” even mean? I have been a college professor for my whole life; I can show or demonstrate an outcome. That is not teaching. Guys like Reilly and Tom demonstrate skiing on YT and then explain what they do and how and why. I would call that teaching or instruction.

 

[geepers]

Nevertheless, that's a very good point: a lot of pros teach outcomes as opposed of teaching inputs - i.e. how to produce the outcome. That generates a lot of this mismatched "turn your feet because I see them turning" kind of thing, imho...

Issue is this dude is not using the ski design in the way he says he is. There's no useful description of the mechanics of how to oversteer the ski, let alone how to stop it oversteering and hook up.

 

[geepers]

Apart from what you think about the contributor, what do you think about this contribution:

JB91710
BINGO! Then vast majority of humans are Two Dimensional Reactors instead of Three Dimensional Thinkers. They see feet turning so they say, "Turn your feet" They feel pressure so they say, "Make pressure." They see legs at an angle so they say, "Tip your legs." Thanks ***** for that genius description of what skiing Looks Like instead of teaching people how to ski. All they are doing is bring attention to what parts of the body look and feel like and call that teaching.

This individual has been trolling ski instructors on youtube for years claiming to have a secret system that will revolutionise the teaching of skiing. Well, he finally posted some actual skiing of his own instead of attempting to claim the work of the real instructional superstars.

Leave it to others to judge the results of the secret system.

 

[Fuller]

This individual has been trolling ski instructors on youtube for years claiming to have a secret system that will revolutionise the teaching of skiing. Well, he finally posted some actual skiing of his own instead of attempting to claim the work of the real instructional superstars.

Leave it to others to judge the results of the secret system.

Really. When I first started paying attention to skiing (on the internet and the mountain) it was apparent to my uneducated self that JB91710 was all hat and no cattle.

 

[geepers]

all hat and no cattle

Great expression!

 

[LiquidFeet]

Was this the guy who proclaimed he knew the secret to making "automatic" turns?

 

[Sanity]

Dunno, Tim. MHO is that JB91710 does a lot of pivoting. The ski may well be turning his feet but it is via fore/aft oversteer not the ski sidecut.



The tracks do not show evidence much carving occurred.

See, I don't think this is a problem with fore/aft. There are lots of high level mogul skiers that bring a tremendous amount of forward pressure and get the ski to pop, like how Chuck Martin makes those quick turns. I think this is case in point, not enough edge angle. That's what happens to a ski for a set of conditions when there isn't enough edge angle. Let's just say hypothetically that he doesn't want to get leaned over more with more speed. How would he get more performance from the ski? First, he has to check his canting. It could just be that his canting is off, and he can't get enough edge angle to feel the response which keeps him from developing. But, looking at the technique, if he just pinched the grape (i.e. kept his shoulders level which is basically hip angulation, though mogul skiers avoid calling it that) then that would give him more edge angle, and the ski would whip around in it's arc instead of smearing, then he could use that response to set up the next turn quickly to string together some nice mogul style turns. I see this problem with lots of skiers doing short radius turns. They don't use counter and level shoulders, so there isn't enough edge angle, and the ski just smears around instead of giving rebound. And then without the rebound, it's very hard to set up the next turn quickly.

 

[JESinstr]

If you read the subtitles in this morons videos, first he states you must face down the hill. Then he states it is about facing where you want to go.... well which is it? IMO it is his active upper body counter rotation that inhibits the ability of the legs to act independently and puts him in the back seat.

The reality is that we need to align with direction of travel and when the turn radius begins to shorten up as we need to do in the bumps, it looks like we are facing straight down the hill. But take a look at SM and run it in slow mo. You will clearly see this is not the case even in tight quarters. In the end it all about creating leg independence and coordinated separation at the hip sockets.

 

[dj61]

See, I don't think this is a problem with fore/aft. There are lots of high level mogul skiers that bring a tremendous amount of forward pressure and get the ski to pop, like how Chuck Martin makes those quick turns. I think this is case in point, not enough edge angle. That's what happens to a ski for a set of conditions when there isn't enough edge angle. Let's just say hypothetically that he doesn't want to get leaned over more with more speed. How would he get more performance from the ski? First, he has to check his canting. It could just be that his canting is off, and he can't get enough edge angle to feel the response which keeps him from developing. But, looking at the technique, if he just pinched the grape (i.e. kept his shoulders level which is basically hip angulation, though mogul skiers avoid calling it that) then that would give him more edge angle, and the ski would whip around in it's arc instead of smearing, then he could use that response to set up the next turn quickly to string together some nice mogul style turns. I see this problem with lots of skiers doing short radius turns. They don't use counter and level shoulders, so there isn't enough edge angle, and the ski just smears around instead of giving rebound. And then without the rebound, it's very hard to set up the next turn quickly.

he leans into the turn and then pushes his feet away. That is skiing in the ‘60’s. He has no clue how to use a shaped ski.

 

[François Pugh]

He is getting his skis to do what he wants them to do, so what's the big deal? It's all relative.

That being said, some people want more from their skis and their skiing.
Leaning into the turn and pushing your feet away as a default skiing mode isn't good skiing today, and it wasn't good skiing in the 1960s (or ever).

 

[Sanity]

he leans into the turn and then pushes his feet away. That is skiing in the ‘60’s. He has no clue how to use a shaped ski.

Maybe I'm wrong, it's interesting to hear different perspectives, but I don't see it that way. The way I see it, he doesn't have a platform, because there's no edge grip, so the ski slides away from him rather than him pushing it away.

 

[Jack skis]

We're really piling it on with the SKI Ezy comments aren't we? Maybe it's time to give it a break. No, I'm not that Jack just to be clear.

 

[Yo Momma]

Got it!!

My wife has one that she wore to watch every freezing cold ski race, including those that she worked. Doug, you know that the home hill of Sugarloaf, at the top of Narrow Gauge can get cold. And back then.....there was a lot of speed racing and training going on. Also seemed like every NorAm speed race was in an ice box, when we travelled.

Her coat was also a Norwegian coat, made by Phenix. White, down insulated, with a real fur color on a huge hood. would zip up to cover everything below goggles. Knee length and sized to fit everything but the kitchen sink under it. That thing was amazing.

Big, bulky and sized up works, when you want warmth....HaHa.

Some of the start jackets that we had for cold days for our kids and friends looked like they were pulled out of a dumpster, and worked. A couple of old military coats, bought for about $3 at a local thrift shop were big favorites. Come to think of it, they could have passed for USST Land Rover issue......perfect colors.

Up here in the NEK (Northern VT) it's Carhartt and Duct tape. NEVER follow skiers into the woods when they are wearing Carhartt gear and/or duct tape.... Unless.... your medical insurance is paid up!!! LOL When we are skiing at the local farm w/ the tractor running the tow rope blazing fast in low gear, Carhartt is one of the few brands that actually holds up! It takes literally 5 sec to burn through a set of high end ski gloves!.... cheap sets are done in about 3 (I've actually tested this and seen my gloves smoke!) ...

 

[slowrider]

Up here in the NEK (Northern VT) it's Carhartt and Duct tape. NEVER follow skiers into the woods when they are wearing Carhartt gear and/or duct tape.... Unless.... your medical insurance is paid up!!! LOL When we are skiing at the local farm w/ the tractor running the tow rope blazing fast in low gear, Carhartt is one of the few brands that actually holds up! It takes literally 5 sec to burn through a set of high end ski gloves!.... cheap sets are done in about 3 (I've actually tested this and seen my gloves smoke!) ...

That's true on the other side of the country as well.

 

[HardDaysNight]

he leans into the turn and then pushes his feet away. That is skiing in the ‘60’s. He has no clue how to use a shaped ski.

You’re right. Why is anyone even bothering to discuss this crap?

 

[Sanity]

You’re right. Why is anyone even bothering to discuss this crap?

Are you sure about that? If so, I've got a great quote by Mark Twain that could change your life.

 

[razie]

Dude can't ski. Period. Nothing wrong with that, but maybe we can stop bringing it up in a thread with *this* title, alongside *that* skiing?

 

[Sanity]

Dude can't ski. Period. Nothing wrong with that, but maybe we can stop bringing it up in a thread with *this* title, alongside *that* skiing?

It is inappropriate to bash some random person's skiing that never asked for MA. I get that. I was actually trying to say he wasn't as far off and to explain why, so I was kind of bashing him the least and in a constructive way. It's weird how thread integrity can all of a sudden become an issue in some circumstances but not in others. It's just people talking about skiing. Don't worry about thread drift. We're not making archives for congress. Actually, as far as helping people learn about skiing, discussing this man's skiing and understanding the problems would probably do much more than analyzing Shiffrin's skiing, because these same problems are the problems that many people have. So, when people like this show up in your ski school, what would you do to improve the skiing? He's closer to a short radius mogul turn than to a ski racing turn, so if I was to steer him towards a groomed run short radius turn for mogul skiing drills, I would have him give more forward pressure, keep the shoulders pointed down the hill, keep the shoulders level, check the canting, and I'll bet in no time the turns would start popping in prep for mogul skiing.

 

[dbostedo]

It is inappropriate to bash some random person's skiing that never asked for MA

That is a great point. Please everyone follow that from here forward and end that particular discussion.