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Should I Stay Or Should I Go ?

Nobody

Out of my mind, back in five.
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Nov 13, 2015
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Ponte di legno Tonale
New season, old challenges...

Many of you should be already aware of my "journey to full certification". As of today I am still an L1 (formerly L2, after reorg all was lowered one notch). To be clear, this is not PSIA, it is not an Italian cert (in Italy, with one regional exception, it is binary, one is either an instructor or it isn't one at all).
And as of today, in my quest to reach the much coveted "full cert" (much coveted because without it I am unable, in all practical terms, to seek work as a ski instructor, even as part time)
my schedule was to ski as much as possible (with purpose, not "randomly pissing off" - please pardon my french) and attend technical clinics .
Then attend a final one week clinic in March 2023 and present my sorry self for the cert exam then.
Yesterday I received in my mail a notification that in a few days there will be a certification exam session, preceeded by a preparation clinic...
Now, with only 3 whole days (skiing at a technical clinic) under my belt, my mind is 97% made up, but I would like to see this esteemed assembly debate and see if I change my mind...

So, advantages in taking the risk (pluses) and reaping the reward (score a "pass") :
One more checkmark on the path to full cert (I am still missing the GS race, which will require ad-hoc intensive training, being that I am, gently saying, a rookie at GS gates...) out of my worries

Minuses:
As it will be very likely that, with only 3 days of skiing, my technical skiing is not yet as refined as it should be, nor it might be with 2-3 more extra days of pre-exam clinic,
a no-pass score will sap, again, in my self confidence and selfesteem (hugely). Not to say, like Meta Hrovath said upon announcing her retirement from racing "...the sparkle in my eyes and the desire.. have gone...", in my case the risk is that all that will also be gone - almost irrecuperabily (I already felt symptoms of that throughout the last season and summer) , with an nth "no pass" score.
Days away from the family, we had planned, taking advantage of a bank holiday, some days up in the mountain, and my young one was already looking forward with expectation to "skiing with dad"...

Financially, it is a draw, neither a minus nor a plus; it would not change much either way (meaning the expenditure will be equal for both options)

So... Should I Stay (go in March) Or Should I Go (now)?
 

Yepow

Excuse me, I'm an intermediate
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Mar 8, 2022
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532
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SK, Canada
Hm. I say STAY and "ski with young one."

I think you get to choose whether or not your self-confidence and self-esteem is impacted by a no-pass: That is a state of mind. If you have decided that you are unlikely to pass, and that that will make you sad, then why spend money and time away from your child on that outcome?

You get the rest of the season to find your passion and develop your skills, and develop that good mindset "I WILL PASS." Seems like going now is LOSE-LOSE--miss out on family holiday to take an exam you don't feel prepared for, and worse, that will shake your confidence if you fail.

Go enjoy your family while they still want to ski with you. The first one of mine no longer wants to ski, the middle one wants to ski terrain I am not comfortable on, and the youngest loves to ski with me but already is aging out and wants to ski with friends more :)
 

James

Out There
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Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,419
Since you don’t feel your skiing will be up to it, pass. But who knows.
I know someone who’s failed an exam pfobably 6 times. He keeps going, though there would be no difference before each time.
 

Tony Storaro

Glorified Tobogganer
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You don't sound too confident mate. Can this be postponed until you properly find your ski legs? Beginning of the season is never a time for showing off your technical prowess.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
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New England
Have you already tried and had a no-pass? If you have and know what it takes, can you do it now or not? If the answer is no and you know it will hurt your state of mind then stay home.
This.

If I remember correctly, you've taken this test before, and it sounds like several times. Your hesitation in going for it now comes from experiences you've already gone through. Trust your hesitation.

The first time I took my PSIA LII skiing exam I knew full well I'd not pass, but I did it to see what the exam was all about. I learned a lot taking that test. If you already know how the test is conducted, there's no need to take it again and sacrifice your family's early season plans to ski with you.

One of the major things I learned taking that exam was how discouraging it was for others when they failed it. The failure rate is around 85%. Men were shouting angrily at the examiners who failed them. I saw one get up in the examiner's face and almost punch him. One woman was sobbing in the bathroom with a supportive friend. Devastating is an accurate word for how failing people felt. Don't do this to yourself again. It's early season and no amount of pre-training just before the exam will do anybody any good. Do the season of training then the test.

Another note on taking this kind of exam...
Last season I attended a presentation for PSIA instructors about how one needs to actively train for performing in front of an examiner who will be evaluating you. "Training for performance" is different than "training for learning."

When training for learning in a clinic or workshop or camp, you direct your attention specifically to how your movements are affecting your skis' interaction with the snow. Your radar is tightly focused on the movement patterns you can alter in order to yield better results. Your trainer's responsibility is to teach you what you need to change to get better results. This is as it should be.

When performing for evaluation, you should not be focusing this way. You need to turn off your personal radar that evaluates your movements and their results. Instead, focus on your belief in yourself (I will do this thing right now very well because I know I can). Train yourself to do this, separately from working on building skill. Separately. So you can switch from one mind-set to the other, at will.

When it is exam day, you need to bring along a supportive friend who will serve as your cheerleader. This person needs to tell you how great you and how you're going to pass this time - before you head out of the lodge to take the exam. Do you have a mentor? Or a good friend who is championing you on? That's who you need with you in the morning before the exam, and that person needs to actively cheer you on because that person genuinely believes you can do it. You need to groom such a person for yourself. Really.

To do that, you need to avoid negative self-talk even when you know it's justified. Don't call yourself a loser, using any combination of words, ever. You're a learner, building new skills. Negative self-talk undermines your ability to recognize what you have gotten good at. If you talk about how you are a loser in front of your potential cheerleader, it undermines that person's ability to see you as a winner too. Train this season to talk up what you're learning and how well you are doing with your training. Every story can be framed negatively or positively. Work on positive framing. You can do this! Use your family at home to show how you can describe what you did today on snow with negative framing, then with positive framing. Repeat framing your accomplishments in a positive way, no matter how imperfect your accomplishment was, until that framing comes naturally and is embedded in brain-muscle memory. And do this out loud with your potential cheerleader as often as possible this season before that exam.

I've described here what I learned in a PSIA presentation. These are not my ideas, but those of a very high level PSIA skier with years and years of experience.

Enjoy your training and best of luck on your exam.
 
Last edited:

cantunamunch

Meh
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Behavioral sink
Screw it. I'm with @wooglin on this. Go and take it.


Even if you fail and get into a funk, you can still use your GS gate training to redirect the frustration and rebuild something to rest your mental game on. You are absolutely committed to doing that this season, yes? If yes, good.


And if you pass, that's great - doesn't stop you from relearning it all over and over and over again. We're all doomed to spiral learning anyway, yes?
 
Last edited:

wooglin

Making fresh tracks
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Jan 27, 2020
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1,459
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Center of the Civilized World
This.

If I remember correctly, you've taken this test before, and it sounds like several times. Your hesitation in going for it now comes from experiences you've already gone through. Trust your hesitation.

The first time I took my PSIA LII skiing exam I knew full well I'd not pass, but I did it to see what the exam was all about. I learned a lot taking that test. If you already know how the test is conducted, there's no need to take it again and sacrifice your family's early season plans to ski with you.

One of the major things I learned taking that exam was how discouraging it was for others when they failed it. The failure rate is around 85%. Men were shouting angrily at the examiners who failed them. I saw one get up in the examiner's face and almost punch him. One woman was sobbing in the bathroom with a supportive friend. Devastating is an accurate word for how failing people felt. Don't do this to yourself again. It's early season and no amount of pre-training just before the exam will do anybody any good. Do the season of training then the test.

Another note on taking this kind of exam...
Last season I attended a presentation for PSIA instructors about how one needs to actively train for performing in front of an examiner who will be evaluating you. "Training for performance" is different than "training for learning."

When training for learning in a clinic or workshop or camp, you direct your attention specifically to how your movements are affecting your skis' interaction with the snow. Your radar is tightly focused on the movement patterns you can alter in order to yield better results. Your trainer's responsibility is to teach you what you need to change to get better results. This is as it should be.

When performing for evaluation, you should not be focusing this way. You need to turn off your personal radar that evaluates your movements and their results. Instead, focus on your belief in yourself (I will do this thing right now very well because I know I can). Train yourself to do this, separately from working on building skill. Separately. So you can switch from one mind-set to the other, at will.

When it is exam day, you need to bring along a supportive friend who will serve as your cheerleader. This person needs to tell you how great you and how you're going to pass this time - before you head out of the lodge to take the exam. Do you have a mentor? Or a good friend who is championing you on? That's who you need with you in the morning before the exam, and that person needs to actively cheer you on because that person genuinely believes you can do it. You need to groom such a person for yourself. Really.

To do that, you need to avoid negative self-talk even when you know it's justified. Don't call yourself a loser, using any combination of words, ever. You're a learner, building new skills. Negative self-talk undermines your ability to recognize what you have gotten good at. If you talk about how you are a loser in front of your potential cheerleader, it undermines that person's ability to see you as a winner too. Train this season to talk up what you're learning and how well you are doing with your training. Every story can be framed negatively or positively. Work on positive framing. You can do this! Use your family at home to show how you can describe what you did today on snow with negative framing, then with positive framing. Repeat framing your accomplishments, no matter how unperfect, until that framing comes naturally and is embedded in brain-muscle memory. And do this out loud with your potential cheerleader as often as possible this season before that exam.

I've described what I learned in the PSIA presentation. These are not my ideas.
Enjoy your training and best of luck on your exam.
Gee. You make skiing sound so FUN. :)
 
Thread Starter
TS
Nobody

Nobody

Out of my mind, back in five.
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Posts
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Location
Ponte di legno Tonale
Wow, lots of good inputs! Thanks to all!
To answer , yes, I already presented myself and I already had "practice test(s)".
Four of them, to be precise.
Four no-pass (fail).
Let's say that the first attempt can be truly seen as a "practice test"attempted in exactly the spirit as @LiquidFeet describes.

The second ...in retrospect I did not ski well enough at all, not even my strong point(s), so it's only fair to say that the no pass was somehow deserved. But so did others who were allowed to pass, what the examiners saw in them and not in me, it's beyond my comprehension.
I know it might appear overconfident or arrogant, but number three and four...I truly think I deserved to score a pass. Specially number 4. This is not only a feeling...and again, as LF says in those 4 attempts, I've seen my fair share of meltdowns - mildly put - at the "no-pass" announcements. Me, at number 3 and 4, I've gone the opposite route. After all was said and done, stood up, went to the examiners and results announcer, looked straight them in the eye and...thanked them, shaking their hands. At the 4th time, two of them , those who went wide-eyed, said, "I remember you well from past exams.."

So, out of 4 at least two can be seen as true "practice test".
The two others, I felt, and still strongly feel today, that I had what it was needed in order to pass the exam.

Now, last season I decided not to present myself because of covid, I was down with it for one month in January, and even if the hit had not been (that) hard it had been physically taxing and it took forever to get back on skis and perform decently. So I decided to forgo any attempt and just ski what was left of the season...
But this year, I want to draw to a close the whole thing, either way. "When", not the "how", not anymore, represents the only variable.
The exams season will start in March, and there should be at least two session scheduled. Plenty of time to ski to perform, which is a better term than my own "ski with intention", different word but I meant exactly that, @LiquidFeet , to train myself to perform at the exam, which is also a taxing task. Never relax never ski down a run with having fun in mind...in the long run, if too many fails occur, that's what takes the sparkle out of the eyes...
Or, in the immortal words of Dexter Rutecki

Teej, You Awake ?
Yeah.
I Didn't Make The Cut,
Did I ?
You Got The Job,
Didn't You ?
My Name Looked A Little
Funny On The List, You Know ?
Come On, Dexter,
There's Not Enough
Room In Here For You
To Get Paranoid.
I Was The Sixth Guy And
They Were Only Gonna Take Five.
Dex, You Skied Great,
All Right ?
Why Don't You
Go To Sleep ?
I Really Made The Cut ?
Yes !
You Know, You Might
Wanna Think About
Gettin' A Different Hat.
What Are You,
The Fashion Police ?
 

justplanesteve

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Posts
286
Location
Elmira, NY
Not ski related, but the tests i've done best on were ones that i was "concerned about" and were postponed on the day or night before, and rescheduled. Somehow the annoyance and focus to re-schedule, took most of the pressure off. I was aggravated at either the examiner or the weather, or both & it translated into me mentally "having the upper hand" if that makes sense. It also gave me a re-set period to self analyze and define the specifics of what or why i felt less than fully competent, and focus strongly on those before the re-schedule event.

Some tests i've not done as well on were calls out of the blue "Hey, we saw you were scheduled for Month/Day/time, but we have an opening now (someone canceled on them), if you can make it (tommorrow/this afternoon/etc).

Not sure if this applys in your situation or not?
Also, there's no way to fake the first = test canceled. You have to be in the zone of sort of pyshed & maybe a little resigned but really believe it's happening, for it to work.

That said, i hope to test for US level one, and imagined it would be toward the end of the season this year (skiing started and ended in this area, already, probably until weather changes again mid- late Dec). But i see an early season option that is very close to home (my own bed and no long travel) and will probably try to take it. OTOH, for me, it will be first time ever, and at a much lower bar than you.

Good luck!

smt
 

Sherman89

Booting up
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Oct 16, 2019
Posts
70
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Nevada
I remember going for my Level 3 years ago with the CSIA among a group 20 candidates and only 4 of us passed--I was one of the successful candidates. There was a lot of pissed off people, it was not a pleasant scene. My racing experience I think got me through on the the gates demos where several candidates were weak. There was 16 very disappointed people even though we were warned that less than 80% will pass. If you think you are ready go for it if not then stay home and ski with your kids and go back at the end of the season when you are on the top of your game.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Nobody

Nobody

Out of my mind, back in five.
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Yeah, the success rate is about that nearly everywhere.
Again, a big thank you to all for your thoughts and inputs.
In the end, I stayed "home" and went skiing with the family, even if I was constantly fiddling and experimenting (better words for panicking over) with equipment (mainly boots and the darn spoiler in the back of the Dalbellos liners) and trying to get decent ( whatever version of "decent" I have in my mental picture of me skiing) at skiing again...while enjoying some family time.
@LiquidFeet: I've read with attention your post, lots of good inputs there, alas I do not have any "supportive friends", nor a "good friend who is championing" or "coaches". I am alone, and past experiences have made me take the decision to go this way. But, quite frankly, you people, at this site, are my "supportive friends" AND "mentors"!
 
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DavidSkis

Thinking snow
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Sep 14, 2017
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118
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Toronto
The second ...in retrospect I did not ski well enough at all, not even my strong point(s), so it's only fair to say that the no pass was somehow deserved. But so did others who were allowed to pass, what the examiners saw in them and not in me, it's beyond my comprehension.
I know it might appear overconfident or arrogant, but number three and four...I truly think I deserved to score a pass. Specially number 4.
...
The two others, I felt, and still strongly feel today, that I had what it was needed in order to pass the exam.
If you don't know why you didn't pass on attempts three and four, I'd suggest getting expert help. You are not on the same page as the examiners. Get feedback from an examiner. Specifically, get them to do some video review with you. Don't just find a nice examiner who will tell you you're doing great; find an examiner who will be honest (while still being constructive).

You sound like the kind of person whose best skiing happens outside of exams (this also describes me). If so, borderline-pass skiing will not be good enough. You will need to over-train until you're so consistently above the exam standard that even a bad day is a pass. Preferably until your worst day is a pass.

Keep at it!
 

BS Slarver

Making fresh tracks
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Nov 20, 2015
Posts
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Biggest skiing in America
From someone who gave up a Llll after 20 years - F*^K IT ! Go ski with your family and have fun, they will thank you for it !

What’s your primary objection anyway, money ? The pin ?

If you want to truly improve your skiing, challenge yourself in as many variable conditions as you can without this looming over your head. Take the money you were going to waste, er spend and hire a mountain guide or ski instructor or better yet just go ski with people you admire.

Both my wife and I, both Lllls, ski better and stronger since leaving the industry.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
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Both my wife and I, both Lllls, ski better and stronger since leaving the industry.
Genuine question: Could this be partly because you have replaced the time you used to spend teaching and thinking about what your students need with time skiing for yourself and thinking about what you need?
 

BS Slarver

Making fresh tracks
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Biggest skiing in America
LF - legit question. My response to the OP was questioning why the need for validation rather than the joy one gets skiing with friends and family. Perhaps if some of those friends, mentors ski at a higher ability there might be the opportunity to see and feel other tactics and skills along with some mileage rather than discussion and analysis and the state of mind they are left in after failing yet again. If I was the Ops director I wouldn’t suggest anyone take an exam early in the season, especially with the doubts he / she is having.

Now for us, having left PSIA -E and moving to Big Sky, we are blessed to ski with X Olympians, hall of famers and friends who just flat out rip. Following them has upped our game to put it mildly.
At 100+ days a year the thinking is mostly switched off other than for tactics and navigating unknown terrain and sustained pitch with consequence, that is hard to get at most resorts
 

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