"Should You Tip Your Ski Instructor? If So, How Much?"

[Wade]

When one of my friends moved from the US to Australia for 5 or 6 years, one of her requests in a care package was real coffee. She said the coffee in Australia was mediocre at best. She later married an Australian and moved back to the US with him and he was amazed at how good the coffee was here vs there.

I’m really surprised to hear that. Australia (well, Sydney and Melbourne at least) has a pretty hard core coffee culture.

When we travel back to Australia to see my family, of all the people to see and things to do, the thing that my wife gets most excited about is the coffee. I’m exaggerating slightly, but the coffee in Australia is really good. In my experience, it’s much harder to get a bad cup of coffee in Sydney than it is in New York.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

I’m really surprised to hear that. Australia (well, Sydney and Melbourne at least) has a pretty hard core coffee culture.

When we travel back to Australia to see my family, of all the people to see and things to do, the thing that my wife gets most excited about is the coffee. I’m exaggerating slightly, but the coffee in Australia is really good. In my experience, it’s much harder to get a bad cup of coffee in Sydney than it is in New York.

Coffee has levels. At the very top is sublime, which I was more likely to get with Melbourne coffee shops. Sydney can do sublime, but they are few and far between than Melbourne.

I'm guessing Tricia's friend takes her coffee pour over style, which is a different way of drinking compared to our milk-based fare (espresso and long black excepted).

It's not better or worse, it's just a different way of drinking and I have to say, I've never seen anybody drink that way in Sydney coffee shops even though a few cafes now offer it. I am curious about it. Seems like a good way to imbibe lots of coffee throughout the day without the ensuing caffeine or lactate overdose.

 

[geepers]

Depends on how you define top... ubiquitous with a strong business plan and very well marketed to people who aren't coffee connoisseurs? Yes. The best coffee or best for people who care about coffee? Not necessarily at all.

Thought the theory was capitalism built the best mousetrap or caught better mice or something. So surely the exported is The Best. Just take McDonalds.... ok, you have a point...

ensuing caffeine or lactate overdose

Can always order a decaf soy. Or 'Why Bother' for short.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Can always order a decaf soy. Or 'Why Bother' for short.

Nah that's not what I'm trying to get at when I say overdose.

If caffeine terms, decaf is like a zero alcohol beer. Drip coffee is like a 4% session ale or lager. An espresso based drink is like an IPA.

Drip-strength coffee is like giving your body enough time to clear the caffeine from your system over the course of a day, the way you're giving your liver enough time to process the alcohol from a 5 schooners of session ale over the course of 3-4 hours.

You're still getting the caffeine/alcohol hit/buzz. It just doesn't overwhelm your system. Comparing drip coffee to decaf is not the same at all, in terms of sensory experience.

 

[Turoa Kiwi]

Because they are typically paid a lot less for their time.

(PS - I actually have tipped a couple plumbers recently when they were not the owners of the company they worked for and they did a great job).


Right. You don't.

I don't fully understand it either, but recognize that that is the current reality exists in the US. So I tip. If that context does not exist where you are, don't tip. Here, it's appropriate. And I'd urge not using what should be or could be (better wages in making tipping less important) as a reason now to not tip while wages are not so good.

When I visit other countries I do certainly tip if it’s part of the culture there.
Fortunately I live in a country where we are trying hard to pay all employees at least a living wage.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

When I visit other countries I do certainly tip if it’s part of the culture there.
Fortunately I live in a country where we are trying hard to pay all employees at least a living wage.

I think some American workers like tipping because it gives them an opportunity to earn way more than the actual living wage.

In countries where tipping is frowned upon, there's no opportunity for hospitality and leisure and entertainment workers to earn more than the award wages.

For example, Aussie casinos prohibit dealers from getting tips from high rollers. But in countries that allow it, dealers can earn a life changing tip from a generous punter.

 

[crgildart]

^^^^Anybody mention exotic dancers yet? ^^^^^

 

[crosscountry]

I think some American workers like tipping because it gives them an opportunity to earn way more than the actual living wage.

If only they're earning "living wage" in the first place!

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

If only they're earning "living wage" in the first place!

If they earned a living wage, society won't allow tipping. It's a zero sum game. Either have a living wage or a tipping system, but not both.

If there's a societal wide living wage enforced, it's probably a meritocratic society. Meritocracy would frown on the extra gratuity earned by some, but not others, when they sweat an equal amount of effort into a job.

Why would a garbage man get a yearly Christmas tip and not the worker who works at the compactor who is not public facing? Why would a waitress get tips and not the dishwasher? I believe there are US supreme court cases on the latter about who gets the cut from the restaurant tip pool.

Notice that most of the workers that get tips are public facing. You don't get a tip shovelling chicken poop in the coop.

These pubic facing jobs, mostly in the entertainment, hospitality, and leisure industries, morphed into a tipping system because of the consuming public's generosity.

In the beginning, these workers earned living wage plus tips. Meaning they earned more than non-public facing workers.

And so these jobs became desirable. There was a competition for these jobs because of the opportunity to earn more than the the living wage.

Eventually, the free market manifestation of the competition for those tipping jobs morphed into reducing the living wage for those jobs. It's the price of entry, if you will, to get the opportunity to earn more than living wage.

 

[Tricia]

When I visit other countries I do certainly tip if it’s part of the culture there.
Fortunately I live in a country where we are trying hard to pay all employees at least a living wage.

Look at us getting back on track to the original topic.

Nice Job!

 

[Philpug]

​

 

[crosscountry]

And so these jobs became desirable. There was a competition for these jobs because of the opportunity to earn more than the the living wage.

Eventually, the free market manifestation of the competition for those tipping jobs morphed into reducing the living wage for those jobs. It's the price of entry, if you will, to get the opportunity to earn more than living wage.

You're confusing living wage with average wage!

You should be able to live on "living wage". But many of the average wage for hospitality jobs are not sufficient to live on.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

You're confusing living wage with average wage!

You should be able to live on "living wage". But many of the average wage for hospitality jobs are not sufficient to live on.

I never claimed they earned a living or average wage. I said they liked those jobs because of the opportunity to earn more than living wage.

We all know they earn a shit wage.

To get to living wage, they ask for tips to top up the shit wage.

To get to more than living wage, they ask for tips to top up the tips that tops up the shit wage.

A worker in a non-tipping, meritocratic society is stuck on living wage. Not more or not less than living wage. It's just stuck in the middle.

I laid out my theory (post #69) on why this happened from a system/economic/historic perspective. It doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

[Philpug]

For me in this case, the percentage of what the instructor makes of the lesson is completely disproportionate to what the resort charges then the arrogance of then Vail suggest a tip to show appreciation. We wonder why there are less professionals staying in the business. It comes around to Richard Branson's quote "Train your people well enough so they can leave, pay them well enough so they want to stay".

 

[crosscountry]

I laid out my theory (post #69) on why this happened from a system/economic/historic perspective.

I never claimed they earned a living or average wage.

If you're going to propose a "theory", at least get the terminology right.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

If you're going to propose a "theory", at least get the terminology right.

Well it's just a ski forum, not the the National Bureau of Economic Research. The standard for proper terminology is lower.

 

[crosscountry]

Well it's just a ski forum, not the the National Bureau of Economic Research. The standard for proper terminology is lower.

There's a minimum standard for clear communication which you can't go "lower". You don't call a ski boot a ski shoe even in a non-skiing forum.

 

[crgildart]

If they earned a living wage, society won't allow tipping. It's a zero sum game. Either have a living wage or a tipping system, but not both.

This does not hold true in any economics ecosystem I can think of. It might be highly infrequent or frowned upon.. but there will still be occasions where someone earning a decent wage also gets little extra.. tickets to game, dinner, or outright cash. Think of bonuses as tips too. There can definitely be businesses where management doesn't allow people on the clock to accept gratuities.. but there will still be other situations and business interactions where people earing a living wage receive a little extra here and there... from customers. it just isn't the norm.. Even happens in Japan..

 

[Bill Miles]

There's a minimum standard for clear communication which you can't go "lower". You don't call a ski boot a ski shoe even in a non-skiing forum.

So, what do I need to do to make my ski shoes fit right?

 

[Jerez]

The two are inherently related. So you find correlation "funny"?

I read it the same way at first... but the post said people who "won't" tip.

Those are different from people who think it ought not to be necessary. The won't tippers are the jerks who take advantage of the situation on the backs of hard working horribly underpaid service workers.