Ski boot too voluminous at forefoot.

[Uncle-A]

we are one of a few places with that type policy, there are loads of ski shops in the uk, just not that many specialist fitters.... no idea why the good guys haven't started it in the USA, the margins on ski boots are being squeezed dramatically every year, and being honest its about the only way we can make enough to stay in business.... remember we are a boot only store, so no skis, gloves, hats, jackets etc which is where the margins are. so we have to rely solely on the boot/fitting/footbeds/liners

if you have a heating engineer install you a new boiler you normally pay for the boiler and installation, same with a service on your car, you pay parts and labour, its not really any different to that, and if more good fitters thought about it that way they would move even further ahead of the chains

I didn't realize you are only a boot shop. It does make a little more sense now. It is going to take some time for me to look at the service charge the way you do, can someone just walk into your shop pick up a pair of boots off the shelf and just pay for the boots and go?

 

[cem]

I didn't realize you are only a boot shop. It does make a little more sense now. It is going to take some time for me to look at the service charge the way you do, can someone just walk into your shop pick up a pair of boots off the shelf and just pay for the boots and go?

We are full service. Appointment only, we are off the high street so don’t get much walk in business anyway. As as the fitters are normally involved in a fitting they cults get a boot out of stock for that person

 

[Viking9]

Hey Cem I clicked on your website and checked out your wall , really nice .
Just like a ” ski wall “ a boot wall can be just as cool.Looks very professional, wish you were in Mammoth , I bet you’d do well.

 

[LiquidFeet]

remember we are a boot only store, so no skis, gloves, hats, jackets etc which is where the margins are. so we have to rely solely on the boot/fitting/footbeds/liners

That makes total sense. Thanks for explaining.

 

[fatbob]

Your number 2 may be acceptable in the UK I don't know how that would fly in the USA. Maybe the scarcity of ski shops in the UK makes it pass but with the competition we have I think it would be a hard sell here.

Colin's model works just fine as he is probably one of the best guys in the world and any consulting fee is well worth it when he will get you in a boot that works best for you. Like he says he is in demand with those who know.

 

[GB_Ski]

Colin's model works just fine as he is probably one of the best guys in the world and any consulting fee is well worth it when he will get you in a boot that works best for you. Like he says he is in demand with those who know.

The difference between #2 and #3 is the concept of lifetime which applies to boots. Realistically, no one is gonna go back and ask for adjustments after the first 2-3 year.

#2 is what my local ski shop does. They do the initial shell fitting, and liner molding. I go ski some, then come back for more work if needed including grinding foot beds, punched, etc. From my perspective, if I can't get my boots dialed by the middle of the season, I need a new boot fitter. My ski shop is packed right now for boot fitting.

 

[Skisolo]

Update: I returned the Speed machines and they sent me a pair of Salomon X/max 120 instead to try out and I also downsized them one size.

I also finally found a boot fitter with a proper shop within reasonable driving distance so I discussed with him over the phone and he told me that he can most likely make the Salomons fit great and I told him he could fit me with custom foot beds while we were at it.

When I first got them on I though "no way I could ever ski in these" but the forefoot area felt just right with no movement at all and just enough room to wiggle my toes a bit.

Been wearing them around the house for hours now and they are starting to feel better. One hot spot on side of ankle on one leg and slight fifth metatarsal pressure that i suspect might need some working out because I have a bit of a protrusion there.

My last boots where also sized down but these feel shorter. I can feel a reasonable amount of pressure against the plastic at the toes when I stand up but feel ok with ankles bent. My old boots did too but they where kind of painful to walk in so maybe the boot fitter can add some space there but we'll see what he says.

The Speed machines felt harder to flex though so I'm a bit worried these will be too soft. Anyone have experience with Salomon boots?
The liner on the Salomons are also noticeably less plush which was a bummer.

In any case the forefoot area feel like a revelation to me so I'm hoping I can make these work. I suppose when first snow fall I will know for sure.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

 

[Andy Mink]

Update: I returned the Speed machines and they sent me a pair of Salomon X/max 120 instead to try out and I also downsized them one size.

I also finally found a boot fitter with a proper shop within reasonable driving distance so I discussed with him over the phone and he told me that he can most likely make the Salomons fit great and I told him he could fit me with custom foot beds while we were at it.

When I first got them on I though "no way I could ever ski in these" but the forefoot area felt just right with no movement at all and just enough room to wiggle my toes a bit.

Been wearing them around the house for hours now and they are starting to feel better. One hot spot on side of ankle on one leg and slight fifth metatarsal pressure that i suspect might need some working out because I have a bit of a protrusion there.

My last boots where also sized down but these feel shorter. I can feel a reasonable amount of pressure against the plastic at the toes when I stand up but feel ok with ankles bent. My old boots did too but they where kind of painful to walk in so maybe the boot fitter can add some space there but we'll see what he says.

The Speed machines felt harder to flex though so I'm a bit worried these will be too soft. Anyone have experience with Salomon boots?

In any case the forefoot area feel like a revelation to me so I'm hoping I can make these work. I suppose when first snow fall I will know for sure.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

For giggles, click into your skis and flex the boots. The additional leverage will likely pull your toes away from the front and seat your heel better. I'm anything but a boot fitter but I do know, for me, trying on boots in a warm shop and flexing them without the ability to keep the heel of the boot on the floor is not the same as flexing them with the ski in cold temps. A 140 might feel too soft at 70° yet will be a rock at 20°. YMMV, JMHO.

 

[DerKommissar]

The Speed machines felt harder to flex though so I'm a bit worried these will be too soft. Anyone have experience with Salomon boots?
The liner on the Salomons are also noticeably less plush which was a bummer.

I've not tried the Nordicas (other than my old pair of N955's from 1989 ), but I find the liner in my S/pro 100 to be on the plush side. Certainly plusher than the K2 Recon. It was the plushest of the boots I tried on. The S/max is likely a different story.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

What is the extended toe box discussed by this head rep at 2 minute mark?

 

[Near Nyquist]

What is the extended toe box discussed by this head rep at 2 minute mark?

The head boots are internally longer for the same bsl
Vs older raptor model
So I have to do less toe stretch work to make em work for some customers

 

[KingGrump]

The head boots are internally longer for the same bsl
Vs older raptor model
So I have to do less toe stretch work to make em work for some customers

I can understand the performance effects of fitting a longer foot into s shorter BSL. Racers do it all the time.
What he actually said was they made the toe box longer and that increase the torsional rigidity of the front of the boot. Sounds a lot more like marketing speak to me.

 

[Uncle-A]

I can understand the performance effects of fitting a longer foot into s shorter BSL. Racers do it all the time.
What he actually said was they made the toe box longer and that increase the torsional rigidity of the front of the boot. Sounds a lot more like marketing speak to me.

If I read it correctly it also said that the BSL is the same. So are they starting the toe box farther back or shortening the toe lug to the binding? Do skiers have longer toes now?

 

[KingGrump]

If I read it correctly it also said that the BSL is the same. So are they starting the toe box farther back or shortening the toe lug to the binding? Do skiers have longer toes now?

Don't know. But these toe stretchers have been trending.

 

[Uncle-A]

Don't know. But these toe stretchers have been trending.

View attachment 179711

I guess I was your straight man for that joke.

 

[DanoT]

The custom footbed was mentioned a few times in this thread but its use can't be overstated.
I have worked on and off at ski shops over the years and every single boot manufacturer's rep will state during a product knowledge session that the first thing to do when fitting a customer in a boot is to throw away the stock ski boot footbed and replace with a custom footbed or partial custom footbed. This will tend to increase performance by "locking" the foot in place as well as make the fit more comfortable.

Bonus: A custom footbed will be longer lasting that the new ski boot and thus can be transfered in most cases to the next pair of boots when the current "new" boot eventually wears out. So, don't be freaked out by the seemingly high cost of a custom footbed.

 

[Skisolo]

Update: I returned all my mail ordered ski boots and went to see the boot fitter. Wanted to give him a chance to fit me in what he thought best. He showed me his warehouse and he had just received this seasons shipment so he had pretty much everything and shelves were fully stocked.

We talked about my experience, my goals and how I ski while he measured my feet. He immediately said I have very narrow feet for being as long as they are.

First he brought Nordica Pro machine 120 and 130. He shell fitted them and then I tried them on and they felt voluminous at the forefoot (surprisingly).

After that he brought me Salomon S/max 120 Atomic Hawk X 98mm last. The Salomon where the same one I had previously returned but he sized me up to my true size. Both of these fit identically and felt pretty much the same on my feet but the salomons had some hot spots still at my ankles. They definitely fit much better one size larger. The 26,5 one just stopped all blood flow in my feet.
Unfortunately he didn't have the Head formula rs 130 in my size which he also wanted me to try but he got me some Technica Mach1 130 LV to try. I liked them a lot but needed to size them down which he didn't have but was on the way.

Eventually his son brought out some Lange RX 120 LV which they had a sale on. I immediately liked them. The liner felt reasonably plush and they where really nice and tight all around and with good heel pocket.
I tried them against a few of the other contenders and I felt they had a stiffer flex. The Salomons seems to have a very even flex pattern all the way down but felt much softer than the Lange at least in room temperature.

In the end I felt the Lange felt most snug and comfortable on my feet even though they felt almost suspiciously comfortable. I asked about sizing them down but he didn't think that was needed.
I bought the Lange and he gave me a good price on custom Sidas footbeds which I accepted. I will pick up the boots and the footbeds next week when he is done with them.

Remains to be seen how they feel when skiing but he said If I have any problems to just bring them over and he will sort it out.

 

[DanoT]

@Skisolo, glad to hear you got the footbeds.

 

[Skisolo]

@Skisolo, glad to hear you got the footbeds.

I'm quite excited to try them on. So used to skiing with old banged up renters or too big boots with my family so it's going to be interesting to try my new stuff,.

Been skiing with a younger friend last two seasons and hes been really pushing the envelope both on and off piste so I have definately started to feel the limitations on my current boots.

 

[EricG]

What is the extended toe box discussed by this head rep at 2 minute mark?

Tad more length/space. It was noticeable compared to prior years (I received mine last spring).