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Ski chatter

asolo

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Posts
138
The steeper and firmer the snow gets, the more I find I need to steer the ski at the start of the turn ("smear, not carve"). I keep the ski tips connected to snow at all times (push toes down even if too much rebound). Everybody does that, even WC racers. We may not see it, but this (steering) is there, unless it is very flat ("green trail").

At the end of the turn, I angulate as much as possible and move center of mass as much as possible forward and carve that last bit.

Purely one footed skiing and way way forward over the ski tips, but dynamically, at the end of the turn. I step from old down hill ski to the new one quickly leaving the foot "behind", by either using hip joint or knee (pull the heel towards butt, like when skiing moguls).

Requires a lot of patience and finesse in ski handling: if I lift up skis and just slam them down, they will bite and skip and bite and skip ("chatter"). Everything should be smooth and fluid. When it clicks, I feel the front inside edge of the ski biting the snow with my big toe.

This is very hard and requires much more flexibility in knees, hips and spine that it seems. When it happens, however, it is the most satisfying feeling: the feeling of ski tips biting across the fall line at the very end of the arc on icy firm snow. Then rebound and repeat.

Takes a lot of work (for me), the steeper the hill, the more work. A 500' elevation of short turns on SL skis tends to drive my heart to the max. Apple watch thinks I am doing 100m runs :)

Need good edges and a good ski (like slalom racing ski). I have learned to do this, but not in the gates yet :)

The longer ski, I guess one could do this, but most mountains do not have enough space or empty enough to try this on a GS ski :)
 

Noodler

Sir Turn-a-lot
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
6,314
Location
Denver, CO
The steeper and firmer the snow gets, the more I find I need to steer the ski at the start of the turn ("smear, not carve"). I keep the ski tips connected to snow at all times (push toes down even if too much rebound). Everybody does that, even WC racers. We may not see it, but this (steering) is there, unless it is very flat ("green trail").

At the end of the turn, I angulate as much as possible and move center of mass as much as possible forward and carve that last bit.

Purely one footed skiing and way way forward over the ski tips, but dynamically, at the end of the turn. I step from old down hill ski to the new one quickly leaving the foot "behind", by either using hip joint or knee (pull the heel towards butt, like when skiing moguls).

Requires a lot of patience and finesse in ski handling: if I lift up skis and just slam them down, they will bite and skip and bite and skip ("chatter"). Everything should be smooth and fluid. When it clicks, I feel the front inside edge of the ski biting the snow with my big toe.

This is very hard and requires much more flexibility in knees, hips and spine that it seems. When it happens, however, it is the most satisfying feeling: the feeling of ski tips biting across the fall line at the very end of the arc on icy firm snow. Then rebound and repeat.

Takes a lot of work (for me), the steeper the hill, the more work. A 500' elevation of short turns on SL skis tends to drive my heart to the max. Apple watch thinks I am doing 100m runs :)

Need good edges and a good ski (like slalom racing ski). I have learned to do this, but not in the gates yet :)

The longer ski, I guess one could do this, but most mountains do not have enough space or empty enough to try this on a GS ski :)

Got video?
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,229
Location
Ontario Canada
The steeper and firmer the snow gets, the more I find I need to steer the ski at the start of the turn ("smear, not carve"). I keep the ski tips connected to snow at all times (push toes down even if too much rebound). Everybody does that, even WC racers. We may not see it, but this (steering) is there, unless it is very flat ("green trail").

At the end of the turn, I angulate as much as possible and move center of mass as much as possible forward and carve that last bit.

Purely one footed skiing and way way forward over the ski tips, but dynamically, at the end of the turn. I step from old down hill ski to the new one quickly leaving the foot "behind", by either using hip joint or knee (pull the heel towards butt, like when skiing moguls).

Requires a lot of patience and finesse in ski handling: if I lift up skis and just slam them down, they will bite and skip and bite and skip ("chatter"). Everything should be smooth and fluid. When it clicks, I feel the front inside edge of the ski biting the snow with my big toe.

This is very hard and requires much more flexibility in knees, hips and spine that it seems. When it happens, however, it is the most satisfying feeling: the feeling of ski tips biting across the fall line at the very end of the arc on icy firm snow. Then rebound and repeat.

Takes a lot of work (for me), the steeper the hill, the more work. A 500' elevation of short turns on SL skis tends to drive my heart to the max. Apple watch thinks I am doing 100m runs :)

Need good edges and a good ski (like slalom racing ski). I have learned to do this, but not in the gates yet :)

The longer ski, I guess one could do this, but most mountains do not have enough space or empty enough to try this on a GS ski :)
You seem to be very aware of your actions but just can’t seem to see the errors which frustrates you. From what you describing it is a bit if a timing, balance and edge feel issue.

First off don’t worry about inside ski lead (this should occur naturally for clearance during edging, if you are working on it something is wrong (timing).

Smear before carve, this is edge feel and balance, if you edge correctly and are balanced correctly you will carve, period, even more so with high performance SL skis. No smear unless you intentionally do so, edge feel.

Finally, balance and edge feel again you describe yourself well but without video, I going to guess you are likely leaning in which causes the chatter, not enough downwards pressure. All skiers go through this phase, those that get past it become good skiers others see as being exceptional compared to themselves.

Again video helps here as you get to see what you are doing vs what you minds eye thinks you are doing. This is the biggest down fall to progressing, what we think we perceive is not what actually occurs.

Good news is you are on the right track, I don’t think it’s your equipment, just a little tweak in your “actual” technique, not your perceived one (though right is actually wrong).

One other thing, this step in skiing will likely feel wrong but work if done correctly, again perceived vs correct. Use that as a guide, if no video is possible.
 

Delicious

Glass Cranks
Skier
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Posts
285
Location
WA
You have to find a way to unlock your hips and knees WHILE keeping pressure under your foot.
 

asolo

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Posts
138
Got video?

Not recently and not on steeps. Going to try. Unfortunately, I do not have an operator that can get under the steeper slope on the local hill. If I get one this weekend and it looks decent, I'll post :) Recruited an operator.

In lieu of this, here is one of the best Youtube videos I have found in a very long time:


This is WC women warming up at Levi slalom. It is hard to tell the snow quality, but the slope is fairly steep. Guessing steep blue to black on top. They are doing carved short turns. You can see that even some WC skiers are somewhat less than perfect on that slope. You can also see how much different the winners (especially Vlhova) are compared to the rest of the field.

Vlhova is around 3min mark in the video she is stepping (jumping with rebound) very clearly ski to ski, she is very forward and she is jumping on a new ski to bend it to a shorter radius. The ski bites late, across the fall line.

She is not even working all that much on this slope because the ski rebound just throws her over to the new ski. She is also in the perfect control of speed, unlike some of the other skiers.

P.S. I do not particularly like everyone's favorite in this video. I think it shows she's not as good a skier. But it's just like my opinion, man :)
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,229
Location
Ontario Canada
Not recently and not on steeps. Going to try. Unfortunately, I do not have an operator that can get under the steeper slope on the local hill. If I get one this weekend and it looks decent, I'll post :) Recruited an operator.

In lieu of this, here is one of the best Youtube videos I have found in a very long time:


This is WC women warming up at Levi slalom. It is hard to tell the snow quality, but the slope is fairly steep. Guessing steep blue to black on top. They are doing carved short turns. You can see that even some WC skiers are somewhat less than perfect on that slope. You can also see how much different the winners (especially Vlhova) are compared to the rest of the field.

Vlhova is around 3min mark in the video she is stepping (jumping with rebound) very clearly ski to ski, she is very forward and she is jumping on a new ski to bend it to a shorter radius. The ski bites late, across the fall line.

She is not even working all that much on this slope because the ski rebound just throws her over to the new ski. She is also in the perfect control of speed, unlike some of the other skiers.

P.S. I do not particularly like everyone's favorite in this video. I think it shows she's not as good a skier. But it's just like my opinion, man :)
How they are practicing is more about the fastest transfer time between gates, this is a race technique and while it is used in regular skiing it is not always best in terms of what we require in the real world. Better technique is that in GS watch some of Ted Ligety's videos (practice runs not racing), this can also be done with SL ski at significantly slower speeds.

Sorry I missed "Steep" in my earlier post, and chatter here is cause by confidense (or lack there of) not that you are aware that there is a bit of fear in the sloop (this is natural and be over come). What happens is you lean in vs over the edge, plays back into balance and edge feel portion of the text. The hard part is leaning down the slope when its steep and attacking (you see this in the womens training run) HINTER BRAIN wins over technique, steeper it is the worse it gets. I learned on straight skis, which showed your errors quickly, get inside a touch chatter, little more and your skis slide out from underneath you, really confidense builder, not. Get over the edge, even when edged hard, it almost feels like you will fall down over your skis at the being (mental mind games).

Get it right youwill feel wrong (off balance) but work extremely well. You'll know.

BTW I don't think they are sliding as much as you think they are.
 

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