Ski Instructor Shortages

[James]

Smell like one to me!

In other profession, it's common practice to "steal" employees from your competitors by paying more. But apparently, that's not the case for ski instructor. It looks like they'd rather keep the high profit margin, even if it means turning away some customers

Not sure it’s common for Burger King to steal food preparers from McDonalds by paying them more. Same thing here.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Only 60% of Americans are fully vaccinated. I was talking to a guy whose kid has 11,000,000 in the bank from ppp and booming business. Nobody wants to raise wages too much. The end of season bonus for people that show up sounds like it might work. But if you are not vaccinated or stuck in Argentina its a non starter anyways

And once they raise the price of a burger, they never lower it.

 

[Seldomski]

How much more would you have to pay instructors for it to really matter? I feel like the delta would need to be really large. In some alternate universe, I would have fun doing this job, but I'm not independently wealthy in this universe, so it doesn't work.

 

[Wilhelmson]

How much more would you have to pay instructors for it to really matter? I feel like the delta would need to be really large. In some alternate universe, I would have fun doing this job, but I'm not independently wealthy in this universe, so it doesn't work.

Yup the local hill near my primary residence had some openings advertised last year. I thought that running the cats and snowguns sounded interesting but to work all hours for $20/ hr and then get to my regular job doesn't work for this old fart.

 

[crosscountry]

Not sure it’s common for Burger King to steal food preparers from McDonalds by paying them more. Same thing here.

I maybe wrong. But I think food preparer are considered skilled worker. So there's no advantage to steal experienced workers over grabbing a warm body off the sidewalk.

Is that how ski instructors are perceived by the management?

 

[Uncle-A]

How many people have passed the level needed to get these jobs vs how many job openings are out there?

 

[crgildart]

Discussed in many other similar threads.. but it's really a bigger problem for remote destination resorts. City bumps usually have tons of good skiers lined up willing to work for the benefits alone.. locker room, clinics, Pro Form, ski pass for them and family in exchange for showing up fir lineups here and there..

Destination resorts sometimes even have to provide lodging and food to recruit good instructors for the peak months..

 

[SkiSchoolPros]

How much more would you have to pay instructors for it to really matter? I feel like the delta would need to be really large. In some alternate universe, I would have fun doing this job, but I'm not independently wealthy in this universe, so it doesn't work.

I think the problem has been building for years, so you are right that a couple $/hr bump won't make much difference at this point. Money is part of the issue, but so is the fact it's not viewed as a respectable profession for young people to consider (in large part because of the fast food wages).

I know a former Vail instructor who moved to France...he got certified there and bought his pass and a uniform from the ESF. Originally, he kept 100% of self generated bookings and they gave him 91% of the bookings they made for him. Now he runs his own school. That's moving the needle compared to US resort wages which can be 15% or less of the lesson cost.

 

[geepers]

How much more would you have to pay instructors for it to really matter? I feel like the delta would need to be really large. In some alternate universe, I would have fun doing this job, but I'm not independently wealthy in this universe, so it doesn't work.

Yup the local hill near my primary residence had some openings advertised last year. I thought that running the cats and snowguns sounded interesting but to work all hours for $20/ hr and then get to my regular job doesn't work for this old fart.

As in most tings we shouldn't put too much stock in how we may react to what we may perceive to be a modest amount of money. People do react very differently depending on their situation. (In small business I am always bemused by the number of people who will buy a hundred dollars (or much more) worth of stuff to take advantage of a mailed $25 gift cheque redeemable only at store of origin - personally I drop those things in the bin but they have a good success rate.)

In any event it's not just the hourly rate that needs fixing. Where I ski they typically run a two hour morning and a two hour afternoon lesson. So even when an instructor on standby gets picked that's at best 4 hours pay for the day. There would be an occasional early starter (extra hour) and the odd out of normal times workshop but the main deal is those mornings and afternoons. If not scheduled or picked then no pay.

Established instructors with a book of returning privates are going to do much better but it's got to be tough starting out.

Maybe resorts should try paying something approaching a living wage and see how many folk that attracts to the industry over time. If they have too many applicants they could always raise the expected standard of instruction - might even result in more satisfied customers.

 

[James]

How many people have passed the level needed to get these jobs vs how many job openings are out there?

They’re breathing, right?

 

[Sibhusky]

They are actually providing housing for foreign workers here this season and have converted Hibernaton House to dorms. They've increased foreign hiring to 70 from more like 30 in prior years. Plus, they are open and still hiring for all these jobs (about half what it was six weeks ago).


Seasonal Jobs
Building Mechanic II
Cashier Utility
Front Desk Graveyard
Housekeeper
Kids Center Child Care Provider
Lift Attendant
Line Cook
Parking Host
Shuttle Driver
Ski/Snowboard Instructor

Full Time Year Round Jobs
Chef de Cuisine
Director of Lodging
Director of Marketing and Sales
F&B Assistant Outlet Manager
Lead Janitor
Lift Maintenance Electrician Mechanic
Lift Maintenance Mechanic

Last season they were short-staffed and it showed.

 

[SkiSchoolPros]

They’re breathing, right?

The standards at our hill are higher. They believe in a self selection process and don't hire anyone who doesn't believe they can do the job. Put another way, they'll hire you as long as you apply.

 

[crosscountry]

The standards at our hill are higher. They believe in a self selection process and don't hire anyone who doesn't believe they can do the job. Put another way, they'll hire you as long as you apply.

 

[SkiSchoolPros]

The shortages continue into January-

Private Lesson Opportunities for Colorado Instructors with Holiday Availability

If there's a problem, let me know and I'll talk to them myself. Best! Mike

www.skitalk.com

 

[mister moose]

There's signs in the Post Office looking for help. You can earn from $18.51/hr as "City Carrier Assistant" to $23.34 as a "Motor Vehicle Operator". That's more money per hour, for 40 hours a week plus overtime if you want it, paid vacation, benefits, and the ultimate in job security. The skills required aren't that steep a barrier.

With seasonal work there's always the shoulder weeks where you aren't getting a paycheck. There's no benefits. There's almost no job security, and the promotion path is dimmer. Housing is always tough, and for those that move to the beaches for summer work, you have to manage seasonal rentals at 2 places.

How much longer before the answer to Vail is for some independent resorts to pay more and charge more, and offer their clientele a fully staffed resort? When "Thank you for your patience" due to lack of staff becomes a permanent fixture and you have to wait in line for EVERYTHING, there is a market opportunity there.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Great office though!

 

[SkiSchoolPros]

There's signs in the Post Office looking for help. You can earn from $18.51/hr as "City Carrier Assistant" to $23.34 as a "Motor Vehicle Operator". That's more money per hour, for 40 hours a week plus overtime if you want it, paid vacation, benefits, and the ultimate in job security. The skills required aren't that steep a barrier.

With seasonal work there's always the shoulder weeks where you aren't getting a paycheck. There's no benefits. There's almost no job security, and the promotion path is dimmer. Housing is always tough, and for those that move to the beaches for summer work, you have to manage seasonal rentals at 2 places.

How much longer before the answer to Vail is for some independent resorts to pay more and charge more, and offer their clientele a fully staffed resort? When "Thank you for your patience" due to lack of staff becomes a permanent fixture and you have to wait in line for EVERYTHING, there is a market opportunity there.

I agree with you generally, but a lot goes into choosing a ski destination including terrain, lodging, off slope amenities like restaurants and flight options.

While places like Aspen, JH and a few others can compete on the high end, especially for the private jet crowd, there is better direct commercial flight availability/reliability into Eagle for Vail/BC plus being closer to a major International Airport in Denver (which helps Keystone and Breck also for the mid-upper market).

West Coasters can consider SLC and the UT resorts, but the ones with the most lodging and surrounding restaurants/amenities are Vail owned PC along with Deer Valley.

The reality is that all US resorts with good terrain/snow are busy holidays and weekends. Since Beaver Creek and Deer Valley opened in the early 1980s, the US population is up close to 50%, the CO and World populations have almost doubled and Denver metro has more than doubled. While terrain has increased some at Vail (Blue Sky), Breck (Peak 6), etc. many small US resorts have closed and no major new resorts have been built.

To make more money with less waiting, you have to expand, add employees and/or serve fewer customers at much higher price points. To a large extent, this was the DV and BC models, but which resorts do you think are best positioned to do this now?

 

[Chris V.]

Yesterday arrived early mid-mountain at Northstar to see the corral absolutely filled with blue jackets. Yet I was later told they were actually short staffed. Northstar sells a LOT of lessons during high season periods. It appears many other departments are also short staffed. For example, the amount of grooming being done is down substantially. Not that I mind that so much.

 

[Henry]

I looked at Vail Resorts public financial statements. Ski school revenue is more than 10% of the revenue from lift ticket & pass sales. Ski students are much less than 10% of the number riding lifts. Ski corporations have been milking the ski school cash cow for a long time. It's past time to feed the cow (increase instructors pay).

 

[Uncle-A]

I looked at Vail Resorts public financial statements. Ski school revenue is more than 10% of the revenue from lift ticket & pass sales. Ski students are much less than 10% of the number riding lifts. Ski corporations have been milking the ski school cash cow for a long time. It's past time to feed the cow (increase instructors pay).

Yes, you have to read the quarterly report to get the real numbers and how much they make from the ski school.