Ski Instructor Shortages

[markojp]

Although it’s probably futile this deliberate misrepresentation should not go unanswered. No one is bashing the profession. What is being bashed are the iniquitous employment and compensation practices of ski schools, in the implementation of which you, as a senior manager, are complicit, practices which have destroyed any prospects of ski instruction remaining a viable profession in the US. You are to be congratulated on hiring talented young instructors in your ski school. Unfortunately you are not likely to retain them unless they have independent financial means or can make their way into one of the few management positions associated with a secure, stable income, as you have done. Of course when they move onto something more viable you can bring in the next wave of cannon fodder. This is a disgraceful way to run a business and I make no apologies for pointing it out however offensive you may find that.

You really shouldn't be blaming him for much larger structural problems over which he or any of us have very very little control. I'm sure he's trying his best to take care of his instructors with the resources he has. I think this thread has run it's course.

 

[Seldomski]

I know a number of former instructors who have decided to sit things out.

Why are they "sitting things out?" Have you asked them? A lot of people have hit peak BS this past couple years due to the pandemic and decided to retire - AKA the great resignation across multiple fields. I feel like we are going in circles here until someone asks this supposed pool of instructors why they don't want to do it anymore.

 

[LiquidFeet]

^^ I quit. Multiple reasons.

So count me in as one of the "Sitting Things Out" members of the Big-Quit movement.
So happy to not be instructing these days, especially since there was no one running the magic carpet. I didn't want to have to push my students up the hill while carrying my skis on my shoulder. And I didn't want to be discouraged from using the instructor locker room on my day off. There's so much more, but not worth listing here.

I've subsequently learned to boot up in the car, eat lunch by myself in a warm car, and de-boot in the car. No big deal. There's the isolation, but I can deal with that. My skiing is improving faster than ever. No interruptions to go stand at line-up and waste time waiting for an assignment without being paid to do so.

 

[mister moose]

Vail and Beaver Creek ski schools continue to sell out many days...I woke up to half a dozen lesson requests in my inbox. I know a number of former instructors who have decided to sit things out.

Would you agree that the supply of ski lessons and resort revenue would increase this season if the sold out resorts allowed trained/certified instructors who were not currently employed or scheduled to work to arranged their own bookings and have the resort get 100% of non-lesson revenue (i.e. lift tickets/passes and potentially food, rentals, lodging and airport shuttle transportation) and 20% of lesson revenue?

Yeah, sorta, maybe. There's a few assumptions you're making that might not hold true:

• Those resorts don't sell out every single day. Your idea would water down their sales on non sold out days.
• The resort would need staff hours to identify eligible instructors, verify their insurance and sign waivers, handle complaints, etc, etc. That costs the resort money.
• The income from lift tickets, et al assumes they aren't already on a mega-pass.
• Will the income loss on days when they aren't sold out exceed the income retained on the days they are?
• Why wouldn't the resort just hire these out of work instructors if they need the additional help?
• On sold out über busy days, will your clients be willing to wait in long lift lines while paying lesson rates?

The resort would see this as opening the floodgates to outside ski school concessions, something they seem loathe to do.

You’re right. Sometimes after a long day on the mountain or as a break from it, I come here for the ski news of the day or mainly for the latest reviews. If I have one fault it’s that I’m highly defensive of the hard working team I have the privilege of skiing/riding with day in and day out.

I think I should skip the Ski School posts, too often they are no longer about instruction and what we can learn from each other. And there is a segment that comes here only to bash our profession.

I think I’ll stick to the reviews.

I hope you don't think I was bashing the profession.

I found your well written satire worthwhile, and the rest of your posts worthwhile as well.

 

[Chris V.]

^^ I quit. Multiple reasons.

That's sad to hear. From your long participation here, I've no doubt that both your knowledge and teaching skills made you a valuable asset. It seems clear that the compensation played only a slight part in your decision. In general, I expect resorts improving working conditions would do a lot more for attracting and retaining talent than would any modest increase in pay. Fortunately, the environment at most hills in these parts is more inviting than what you describe. The panic has largely subsided.

 

[SkiSchoolPros]

Why are they "sitting things out?" Have you asked them? A lot of people have hit peak BS this past couple years due to the pandemic and decided to retire - AKA the great resignation across multiple fields. I feel like we are going in circles here until someone asks this supposed pool of instructors why they don't want to do it anymore.

Various reasons, but I KNOW there are qualified instructors who have decided NOT to work at all (or extra days beyond their minimum) for $20/hr (or less) but WOULD WORK MORE if paid $500+ to teach a private. Other non-monetary improvements (that typically happen in competitive labor markets) would help also.

Yeah, sorta, maybe. There's a few assumptions you're making that might not hold true:

• 
  
• Why wouldn't the resort just hire these out of work instructors if they need the additional help?

The resort would see this as opening the floodgates to outside ski school concessions, something they seem loathe to do.

Yes, and I don't think they want to open the floodgates to higher wages.

In competitive markets, a single entity does not set prices or wages as a competitor will step in and charge a lower price or offer a higher wage when it is profitable to do so. This is how supply gets optimized and profit levels and wages normalized.

Only those enjoying monopoly/monopsony power can try to determine what amount of lesser supply and wages will optimize long term profit via reduced supply and higher prices.

 

[James]

Head to the Hermitage!
I hear they’re paying well.

 

[Rod9301]

Completely predictable responses by keyboard warriors seeking to satisfy their apparently boundless ego’s by trashing others. Yes of course that 20 something L-2 who was a competitive collegiate and junior racer will never become worthy in your estimation and will no doubt join the ranks of the least skilled now populating all of American skidom. I dunno somehow it worked out for me, I’m a full time pro in management with salary and bonuses. My former students, and all the instructors I’ve hired and trained over the years will be so disappointed to learn that I started out simply as a hobbyist who could somehow find his way through NCAA Div l race courses with an occasional respectable time then taught and coached as a mere hobby before going full time. Where do I go to turn in my certs, obviously I’m not worthy…

Good for you, you obviously had the skiing skills. I doubt most level 1s have these skills.

The issue is that customers are paying good money for lessons with unqualified instructors that learn on the job.

The solution is a qualifying exam that is very strict.

 

[Rod9301]

Now that would depend. If I had a Level 1 or Level 2 plumbing issue then I'd probably be happy with an L1 or L2 plumber. Assuming plumbers are certified in some sort of rank. What would count is that the plumber was certified to deal with the issue. At which point it should not matter if they are recycled worker (with an unhealthy obsession in plumbing), a gapper or a grizzled veteran with decades of experience. Be nice to get the veteran but straightforward issues that won't generally be needed.

This also assumes that I can recognise an L1/2 plumbing issue - but let's not go there.

This assumes that beginners do not deserve a level 3. I strongly disagree. Beginners need top level instruction, so they don't learn bad habits.

 

[geepers]

This assumes that beginners do not deserve a level 3. I strongly disagree. Beginners need top level instruction, so they don't learn bad habits.

Making it so only L3s could teach anything would sure fix the pay issues pretty quick.

Not sure that it would make for a nation of better skiers.

 

[François Pugh]

Well the ski school is sort of between a rock and a hard place. Sure it's best to have the best instruction from the critical start, but there are only so many level 3 instructors to go around. Ski school can't assign an instructor who isn't up to it, to teach a very advanced student, an instructor that should be taking lessons from the very advanced student; the student would know right away, and if the lower level instructor was any good they would too, and tell the client there's not much they could do for them. However, a never-ever would not have that problem, and so on up the sliding scale.

 

[geepers]

There'd be even more self-taught and home schooled skiers.

 

[HardDaysNight]

There'd be even more self-taught and home schooled skiers.

That isn’t the case in many countries in which full certification is a requirement to instruct. Quite the contrary in fact. Of course there are more properly qualified instructors in those countries because one can actually make a career out of ski instruction in such places.

 

[geepers]

That isn’t the case in many countries in which full certification is a requirement to instruct. Quite the contrary in fact. Of course there are more properly qualified instructors in those countries because one can actually make a career out of ski instruction in such places.

Lifting the calibre of trainers in any field is likely to pay dividends in the longer term. Nothing wrong with the concept.

Equally we don't need to use university level maths professors to teach basic arithmetic to early schoolers. In fact over-capable trainers may be counter-productive through boredom or inability to relate.

The claim that it needs L3s from the get-go assumes that L1/L2 aren't satisfactorily trained to do the job. But we aren't on-line beating up instructors, are we...?

 

[jimtransition]

The requirement to have a full cert to instruct only really applies in France and Italy. It's also not really about the quality of instruction, more to restrict the supply of instructors in order to preserve their current high wages.

In Spain where there is a surfeit of instructors (only a L1 requirement to be independent) you see lower lesson costs (55 euros an hour compared to 80+ in France) and fewer hours being worked outside peak times.

Of course getting paid 55 euros an hour is still lots better than most US instructors, but that eurotest level requirement, or just L3, would be insane in the US without allowing independent instructors to set their own prices.

 

[David Chaus]

So, I did teach for one of three independent concession ski schools at Stevens Pass. The first two season under Vail ownership didn’t change much, as these school brought in a lot of students, a carryover from the days when there were a couple dozen different ski clubs before there was even a ski school at Stevens. Over the year Stevens built up their program and the smaller ski schools lost their concession at Stevens (even prior to VR), and some moved over to Summit at Snoqualmie (where most of them still operate as concession schools). They tend to operate with pre-registration for 6 weeks of ski classes. Some do 8 weeks, one I know of runs a 6 week class, then runs another 6 week class later in the season.

20-21 Stevens restricted the number of ski lessons in their own school and didn’t allow the 3 independents to operate, you know, “for safety reasons.” Before this season they made it clear the concession schools would not be able to operate moving forward. No one was really surprised.

Hence, I’m no longer teaching. And I really don’t want to work for VR at this point.

There are other places I could teach, but like @LiquidFeet I am gaining more in my skiing by not teaching, rather I am free to take advanced clinics from another private school, in addition to free skiing.

And this year, like last year, is not the year I want to be teaching. I’ll re-evaluate next year.

 

[markojp]

FWIW, what a good L3 instructor buys a ski school is versatility. A good L3 can handle anything that walks in the door, group splits, etc... they can put out fires. That said, I've seen relatively inexperienced instructors do a fantastic job so long as they're coaching (and well trained/coached as they grow) what's accessible to their knowledge and skill sets.

 

[Bolder]

You could kill two birds with one stone: Have instructors work as lifties, cashiers, snow shovelers etc., and vice versa! Voila, solves the support staffing issue too. Pay them a decent salary, hire them as FTEs with bennies...sure, you might have to teach a few line cooks how to teach stem christies...

 

[Erik Timmerman]

You could kill two birds with one stone: Have instructors work as lifties, cashiers, snow shovelers etc., and vice versa! Voila, solves the support staffing issue too. Pay them a decent salary, hire them as FTEs with bennies...sure, you might have to teach a few line cooks how to teach stem christies...

Yeah... no. I have a friend that works at a NH Vail-owned mountain. He said that the instructors were asked to work one shift on lifts while things ramped up. Next thing they knew they were scheduled multiple days as lifties. Many of them quit. They are instructors not lifties.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Yeah... no. I have a friend that works at a NH Vail-owned mountain. He said that the instructors were asked to work one shift on lifts while things ramped up. Next thing they knew they were scheduled multiple days as lifties. Many of them quit. They are instructors not lifties.

^^ This.