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Ski Instructor Shortages

James

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You could kill two birds with one stone: Have instructors work as lifties, cashiers, snow shovelers etc., and vice versa! Voila, solves the support staffing issue too. Pay them a decent salary, hire them as FTEs with bennies...sure, you might have to teach a few line cooks how to teach stem christies.Kind of happening already. Not shoveling, though I know someone who left Killington last year because of that. with decades teaching/training because with covid changes, he was going to have to be available to shovel snow.
Stem christie hasn’t been taught prob since the early 80’s. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere in Europe someone is using their “high professional standards” and is still doing it. I actually teach it for woods and various situations.

We had some race coaches who got trained in lift operation, because they might need to if they want the lift for training.
I know someone who left Killington last year. With covid restrictions, I think they had no groups. They wanted him to be available to shovel snow, even with decades of experience teaching/training.
 

Dave Marshak

All Time World Champion
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I know someone who left Killington last year. With covid restrictions, I think they had no groups. They wanted him to be available to shovel snow, chase his high hourly rate off the payroll without actually firing him, even with decades of experience teaching/training.
FIFY

dm
 

Seldomski

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'mericuh
You could kill two birds with one stone: Have instructors work as lifties, cashiers, snow shovelers etc., and vice versa! Voila, solves the support staffing issue too. Pay them a decent salary, hire them as FTEs with bennies...sure, you might have to teach a few line cooks how to teach stem christies...

I think this sort of full time job makes more sense as a tour operator (who goes on the trip and also provides beginner instruction and/or mountain guide) or bundled with retail/sales (movement analysis/alignment + boot fitter). I think I mentioned this somewhere earlier in the thread. You also have supervisor positions that are full time/salary where you instruct sometimes, but lots of office management stuff.

The more it looks like 'real work,' the more the position becomes salaried and stable. I think there are a lot of ski instructors that don't want it to be 'work.' You can get paid doing other 'real work' in more hospitable environments for more $$.
 

justplanesteve

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Considering the original proposal, that rent-seeking by large entities ("major resorts") drives a huge surtax on the labor of instructors and the cost to consumers, there is little argument. Whether the free-market ought to intervene & if so, how; is being debated for 8 pages & counting by people abler than i.

On the question of whether ski instructors below any given level should be able to afford to make a somewhat comfortable career at the profession, there are a lot of counter examples in a mostly free-market society. Ignoring possibly specious examples such as truly talented horseshoe tossing experts & moving to lower levels of less popular musical instrument teachers, artists, etc; there are many highly professional examples where the apprentice at various points in history is assumed to toil under-compensated for years, until attaining a high level of mastery or at least acreditation. Often a substantial initial investment (mid-6 figures) in education is required. Doctors of all sorts including PhD candidates who do most of the world's basic research. There's a pilot shortage now and kids out of training mills can get on a path that builds time and income rapidly. But during most of my life, pilots who did not fly as a military career sometimes spent decades teaching & working low level, low compensated jobs & accumulating debt and marital problems before (maybe) attaining the left seat in an airliner or one of the few better corporate gigs.

There are an awful lot of appealing activities that the entry level is unrestricted, and people initially flock to them (or return to them after other more remunerative careers) because of passion. Income remains low for most lower echelons. That's not necessarily a fault of the system. It is a market driven factor that often varies over historical periods, though.

smt
 

Erik Timmerman

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So... I work as a trainer at Stowe Mountain Resort. People from other Vail resorts can sign up for our clinics. Yesterday in my clinic I had a guy who is management at another mountain. Near the top of one of our lift rides he said "I can't believe that we pay a higher rate for lesson requests". My jaw dropped. I was nearly speechless. Couldn't push him off the lift. He thinks that since we are sold out anyway, it doesn't matter who teaches who. Everyone should just get the person that is paid the least. I suggested he try training with one of the J-1s at his won mountain. He is working on his L3 so he thought it was worth traveling to a mountain with Ed Staff. Oh.... I see how it is.
 

Scruffy

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So... I work as a trainer at Stowe Mountain Resort. People from other Vail resorts can sign up for our clinics. Yesterday in my clinic I had a guy who is management at another mountain. Near the top of one of our lift rides he said "I can't believe that we pay a higher rate for lesson requests". My jaw dropped. I was nearly speechless. Couldn't push him off the lift. He thinks that since we are sold out anyway, it doesn't matter who teaches who. Everyone should just get the person that is paid the least. I suggested he try training with one of the J-1s at his won mountain. He is working on his L3 so he thought it was worth traveling to a mountain with Ed Staff. Oh.... I see how it is.
An example of Vail Management at it's finest :nono:
 

jimtransition

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So... I work as a trainer at Stowe Mountain Resort. People from other Vail resorts can sign up for our clinics. Yesterday in my clinic I had a guy who is management at another mountain. Near the top of one of our lift rides he said "I can't believe that we pay a higher rate for lesson requests". My jaw dropped. I was nearly speechless. Couldn't push him off the lift. He thinks that since we are sold out anyway, it doesn't matter who teaches who. Everyone should just get the person that is paid the least. I suggested he try training with one of the J-1s at his won mountain. He is working on his L3 so he thought it was worth traveling to a mountain with Ed Staff. Oh.... I see how it is.
Whilst in no way supporting his view, there are quite a few places that don't pay extra for requests, Portillo being one of them.
 

crosscountry

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Doctors of all sorts including PhD candidates who do most of the world's basic research.
I believe those doctors were still paid a much higher wages than ski instructors. Moreover, the majority of them got credited for their research, albeit along with their superior who avoided the tedious hands-on work.

There's "under-compensated". Then there's below living wage.

I'm in a profession where the young kids right out of school can do pretty good work but weren't paid quite the same as the industry deadwoods. That's "under-compensated". But it was a pretty darn good living even if they never got to the top of the earning chart.

The ski instructor pay is such a sore thumb in the professional pay landscape is precisely that. They're skilled/professional workers. Yet they were paid like unskilled workers. That's beyond just under-compensated. It's a disgrace.
 

GB_Ski

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The ski instructor pay is such a sore thumb in the professional pay landscape is precisely that. They're skilled/professional workers. Yet they were paid like unskilled workers. That's beyond just under-compensated. It's a disgrace.
They are paid like what we paid teachers. In America, we don't value educators much.
 

crosscountry

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They are paid like what we paid teachers. In America, we don't value educators much.
Really? I knew a few teachers. They weren't paid too terribly.

One can always suggest they're under paid for what they have to put up with. But pay doesn't appear to be their main concern.
 
Thread Starter
TS
SkiSchoolPros

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The shortages continue...from a Travel Agent

I saw your info during some research for ski instructors in the Vail area. We have some VVIPs that will be in Beaver Creek in March. All Vail resorts ski schools are sold out for most of the month...and I know there's a huge shortage. I'm in Park City right now...it's a disaster trying to find guides and instructors.
 

gozoogle

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Yeah... no. I have a friend that works at a NH Vail-owned mountain. He said that the instructors were asked to work one shift on lifts while things ramped up. Next thing they knew they were scheduled multiple days as lifties. Many of them quit. They are instructors not lifties.
Happy to help out for an hour or two here and there if someone had an emergency or something falls through. But I worked double digit days running the magic carpet and directing bunny hill lift traffic last season (2020-2021). This season, in order to do magic carpet, we had to be "re-trained" and we were asked to sign up if we wanted to help out. Sorry, no thanks if you abused my willingness to be a team player in the past...
 
Thread Starter
TS
SkiSchoolPros

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Maybe becoming a liftie is the way to go...they will be making more next season than my current base teaching rate as a 10th year instructor with 5 certs.

According to https://www.vaildaily.com/news/vail-resorts-to-raise-minimum-wage-to-20-per-hour/
Lift ticket revenue is up, but ski school revenue is down. With ski school sold out almost every day, what does that tell you??

For the record, the new $20 min is a step in the right direction, but it is unclear what pay changes they are making for instructors.
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
SkiSchoolPros

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Bumping this to remind lesson takers to book early or plan on independent study. Many resorts are sold out over the holidays. Some are even restricting instructors NOT on the schedule from taking private requests (but will let you work an assignment/group on a sold out day).
 

Disinterested

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Bumping this to remind lesson takers to book early or plan on independent study. Many resorts are sold out over the holidays. Some are even restricting instructors NOT on the schedule from taking private requests (but will let you work an assignment/group on a sold out day).

The latter strategy will just end in mass resignation.
 
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