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Ski school staffing: '21/'22

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
Skier
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May 12, 2016
Posts
5,813
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
@surfsnowgirl I’m so glad you chimed in! We’re going into that time of year where those of us in management start actively engaging in recruiting, hiring and training not just new hires but experienced staff as well.

I’m always stoked at the prospect of bringing new people into our school who really to a person want to be here for reasons other than pay. I’m less interested in whether they can rip or not, we can teach them to do that, it’s about how they interact with people, something much harder to learn and which you illustrated well.

Don’t get me wrong, compensation is important & I can’t speak for other schools but no one we hire, even some still in HS makes minimum wage. I’m always honest in what one can expect to earn, & I have found that most are in it for the benefits, which more than anything else revolves around skiing, not pay. We’d all like to get paid more and this season might be a reckoning for many mountains with such a need for more employees .

Thank you. I love all you said. You sound like a fabulous manager. Love this quote from my director when I first started teaching 6 years ago. I was nervous back then and hadn't been skiing for a long time so I was worried about being hired. When I expressed my concerns to Jay his response was classic. He said don't worry we can teach you to ski, we can't teach you a personality. I think truer words have never been spoken. They taught me to ski alright. I had at least 2 mentors and lots of clinics. I will forever be grateful to them. Bromley and Magic are also great to me. I feel lucky and am very grateful.
 

Nancy Hummel

Ski more, talk less.
Instructor
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Jan 10, 2016
Posts
1,044
Location
Snowmass
I have always found it ironic that ski schools advertise "ski professionals" and charge accordingly but pay the "ski professionals" a ridiculously low amount.

When I started teaching at Breck, my skiing sucked. I worked hard, shadowed lots of lessons and married an excellent skier/instructor. After 18 years of teaching, plus lots of clinics and dedication to learning, I would consider myself a decent instructor.

I do believe that my teaching skills were decent. I taught lower levels for the first couple of years which really helped my skiing and teaching skills.
 
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HDSkiing

You’re Sliding On-Snow; Don’t Over-Think it!
Skier
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
Posts
319
Location
The Rocky Mountains
Excellent! Then I suggest you defer appointing them as instructors (and charging customers full price for their time) until you have done so.
Lol, now that would be an interesting business practice, but it wouldn't be a good ski school one.

One might be able to rip, however one might define such a thing, but that doesn't mean they can teach. Give me an intermediate skier, who is good with people and is passionate about introducing Never Evers to the sport over some skilled skier with no teaching or interpersonal skills, and I'm taking the intermediate skier for a number of reasons:

1. He/she won't be in that intermediate zone long, just the hiring clinic alone will show marked improvement.

2. Most likely they are aware of their limitations, are open to feed back and coaching as there is a good chance they are there to improve, unlike some (not all) "rippers," who may believe that they don't need feedback, after all their rippers...

3. They will relate to the customer, it may not have been that long ago they were learning, a point of view which is sometimes overlooked by more experienced instructors.

4. And this is the real clincher, the customer will get a better value for their money, yes I said it and its true. Showing a customer how well I rip might impress them, but what's it doing for their skiing?

Now in a perfect world we'd get only awesome skiers with awesome people skills applying, but as the saying goes "if is for children." The reality is that we have to higher real people, with whatever skills they bring to the table, and because we are all different, those will vary.

From a business perspective we, the ski school recognize that staff member is our most important "product." We want and encourage people, even intermediate skiers to apply, we will provide them the tools that will make them successful. Don't misunderstand, if you are that rare level 9 skier coming in for coaching during a private lesson, you're not getting that new hire, you are getting an experienced, most likely level 2/3 staff member.

Ski schools are big tents, there is room for everybody, and you and I can at least agree the pay could be better, but lets not get into marginalizing people just starting out in their ski careers by making them believe that they have less to offer to a client appropriate for their skill level to instruct.
 
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Pdub

best day ever
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Joined
Oct 24, 2017
Posts
261
Location
New England
I expect the staffing issues will be more challenging in the West than East. New England mountain towns did not see the extreme level of WFH migration and real estate inflation that the Rockies and Tahoe experienced. Same trend in the East, just less extreme.
 

HardDaysNight

Making fresh tracks
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Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Posts
1,351
Location
Park City, UT
And this is the real clincher, the customer will get a better value for their money, yes I said it and its true. Showing a customer how well I rip might impress them, but what's it doing for their skiing?
Well, it was you who introduced the idea of “ripping” so I assumed you felt it had value. Nor did I suggest that an instructor candidate shouldn’t be taught how to instruct before being turned loose on paying clients, clients who imagine they are getting a ski professional for the huge fee they are being charged.
From a business perspective we, the ski school recognize that staff member is our most important "product."
No doubt. That’s why you pay them so well!
 

rustypouch

Getting on the lift
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Jan 30, 2018
Posts
168
I’m not sure it’s fair to label people new to the industry as tools of the corporate elite who are in some way unknowingly “defrauding” customers.

The industry needs those people, that’s how we get the best. How many of us can say that we were unquestionably competent our first season, or 5…

I agree about the wages, certainly we need to incentivize the job for both entry level and of course experienced staff. The two are not adversaries.
What gets me are the programs that charge huge amounts to be a rookie instructor, like this: https://timberlineacademy.com/winter-skills-instructor-internship-program/
 

Rainbow Jenny

Making fresh tracks
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Dec 6, 2015
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California and Hokkaido

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
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Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,627
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PNW aka SEA
Excellent! Then I suggest you defer appointing them as instructors (and charging customers full price for their time) until you have done so.

So one needs to be a seasoned L3 to take out a group of first time 6 year olds? A new, enthusiastic, and empathetic person that has great people skills can be very effective with young skiers. That person might eventually become an L3 if they enjoy teaching, or maybe they'll be a stellar L2 that makes life long skiers . Lack of experience? Name me any occupation on earth that one starts without a learning curve, and at the bottom before rising to higher levels. Are all physicians brain surgeons? And did the best neurosurgeons finish med school with a full skill and experience set? And did you get a discount because your guy/gal was a resident, or did you pay extra because you got the head of the department?

And Scotskier, do you really think all race coaches are great skiers and are well compensated, or even know a lot about racing or coaching skiing when getting started because they're interested in helping out because they have kids in their local race program or maybe discovered their interest in the local beer league ? Do all your coaches have WC starts? No. You help them be better coaches through both training and example because you know it's a journey, and if anyone loses interest, they move on.

People teach because they enjoy contributing and interacting with people. It's a thrill when you've helped someone achieve a breakthrough and/or have amplified the joy of their day.There isn't really room for misanthropy in teaching much of anything, but it's sadly abundant in online commentary. I hope you can find and will take more opportunity to elevate rather than denigrate. I'm sure you have much good to offer as a positive resource, HDN.
 
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François Pugh

Skiing the powder
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Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,666
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
Excellent! Then I suggest you defer appointing them as instructors (and charging customers full price for their time) until you have done so.
Well now, here's a good idea, maybe not "rip", but how about teach them not to teach a braking wedge as "the" way to stop or slow down, teach the instructors not not to install the perma-stem or perma-pivot and teach the instructors enough basic skiing theory so that they understand enough about it to build the never-evers a good foundation.

Nobody is suggesting ski school's hire people with poor personalities who can't teach; that's a straw dog argument.

We've all been down the "under-paid professionals - overcharged customers" path too many times on this site, but I can't resist. What training do other professionals get compared to the person teaching my never-ever? It's not even close. So maybe it's fair that a ski instructor should not make as much as a high-school teacher, medical doctor, professional engineer, registered nurse, licensed plumber, licensed electrician, etc. As to charge out rates that are higher than most professionals, well that's a problem that won't be solved as long as the folk investing the money keep thinking short term and can continue to make a large profit margin via the control of supply-demand curve with limited competition for ski instruction schools on the mountain.
 

Ron

Seeking the next best ski
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Steamboat Springs, Co
Yet another "let's trash instructors " thread. Hopefully we'll be skiing again soon and focusing on the wonders of the positive.

You wont find me trashing instructors. I think they are under paid and under appreciated.
 

Ron

Seeking the next best ski
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I would know if there is a path towards advancement and career at the resort level or PSIA? In the corporate world, leaders are identified and cultured at an early stage in their employment. Those who have potential are entered into leadership programs and additional training, not unlike the military. Perhaps this is occurring at some resorts? I think PSIA would greatly benefit from such an approach
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
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Instructor
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Nov 12, 2015
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6,627
Location
PNW aka SEA
I would know if there is a path towards advancement and career at the resort level or PSIA? In the corporate world, leaders are identified and cultured at an early stage in their employment. Those who have potential are entered into leadership programs and additional training, not unlike the military. Perhaps this is occurring at some resorts? I think PSIA would greatly benefit from such an approach

This is up to the individual ski schools and directors. And yes, it is occurring at some resorts.
 

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