Ski school staffing: '21/'22

[Nancy Hummel]

Yet another "let's trash instructors " thread. Hopefully we'll be skiing again soon and focusing on the wonders of the positive.

I do think some resorts could do a better job of training and mentoring new instructors. I also think there are instructors with lots of experience whose teaching skills could use polishing. Resorts could take more responsibility for the "product" they put out.

 

[Bad Bob]

I do think some resorts could do a better job of training and mentoring new instructors. I also think there are instructors with lots of experience whose teaching skills could use polishing. Resorts could take more responsibility for the "product" they put out.

Agreed.
Somebody can always do it worse, and everybody can always do it better.
Regardless of what the "it" is.

 

[markojp]

I do think some resorts could do a better job of training and mentoring new instructors. I also think there are instructors with lots of experience whose teaching skills could use polishing. Resorts could take more responsibility for the "product" they put out.

I have no trouble with constructive criticism of the instruction world, especially from someone like yourself who is part of it.

 

[HardDaysNight]

Yet another "let's trash instructors " thread.

Any comments that I have made in this thread show great sympathy for the plight of neophyte instructors and veterans alike, both of whom are exploited by resort owners and the ski school management they employ.

 

[fatbob]

I don't see another trash instructors thread. I see a thread that adds further evidence to the hypothesis that the US ski instruction industry is set up in such a way that it neither optimises outcomes for the service providers nor the service recipients. If people who are passionate and talented at instruction are thinking of taking a pass at instruction this year because they don't want to be overworked or they can't make rent then surely that's a problem?

Maybe this year the middleman who has benefitted handsomely from the hypothesis over time starts to feel the pain in terms of customers who are dissatisfied about non availability of instructors or overcrowding in lessons etc? I suspect not though - it'll get swept under the carpet of post Covid disruption and a systematic fix will be kicked into the long grass, maybe if we are cynical, with a bit of pricetaking opportunism by the middleman ("sorry no discount programmes this year - we're sold out")

 

[LiquidFeet]

....If people who are passionate and talented at instruction are thinking of taking a pass at instruction this year because they don't want to be overworked or they can't make rent then surely that's a problem?
....

Are the instructors here expecting to be overworked this upcoming season?
I am.

 

[slowrider]

Just saw this post on FB.
View attachment 142220

Guaranteed if you Swim with Sharks you will not Work in Aspen.

 

[Disinterested]

I would know if there is a path towards advancement and career at the resort level or PSIA? In the corporate world, leaders are identified and cultured at an early stage in their employment. Those who have potential are entered into leadership programs and additional training, not unlike the military. Perhaps this is occurring at some resorts? I think PSIA would greatly benefit from such an approach

I think one of the scariest things about this approach for ski schools is that these people are also the most likely to leave you for professional life elsewhere.

There's enormous pressure put on the working conditions of people who want to be ski instructors as a lifelong profession by the combination of i) very young people who have no intention of staying and ii) retired people with a fortune who don't care about making money. Both line up in droves most years to work at ski resorts and squeeze the people in their 30's and 40's trying to make a profession in the middle.

It's very hard to drive up wages and benefits when the core of most workforces are transients and people who would probably work just for a pass.

 

[Disinterested]

I don't think that what comes out the other end of the lack of professionalism in the US instructor market is a crappy product, though. What you get in the US is a great service experience and a mixed educational experience.

If it was all about ripping skiers in the schools the Europeans would have this industry worked out; they do not. In the end the relationship the average guest forms with the pro/instructor is more significant than technical development to their likelihood to repurchase from that instructor. This forum is for people who prioritise tech development above everything, which is very much not what a lot of skiers in the world are out to get in reality from their lesson.

 

[Ron]

I think one of the scariest things about this approach for ski schools is that these people are also the most likely to leave you for professional life elsewhere.

not sure I understand what you are saying.

 

[Disinterested]

not sure I understand what you are saying.

On the one hand:

It's smart to identify and streamline talent from your strongest employees with a view to getting better leaders and improving retention.

On the other hand:

Your strongest young employees are the most likely to leave you and diminish your return on that investment.

So a lot of ski school managers are scared to invest too hard in people because they know that they have to rely on who stays and not who's best.

 

[Ron]

its the risk you take. those retention and development programs have been existence for a long time and are quite effective. part of the screening is to identify those who have an interest in remaining and not leaving. in the corporate sector, those program are often tied to a 2-4 year commitment but you can never count on a person to remain, its just part of the risk. In my career, I retained employees by paying them above the scale, and providing a flexible work environment.

 

[fatbob]

not sure I understand what you are saying.

I think it means that those with the skills and drive to try to make a living as a career ski instructor (without wealth behind them) can probably make a better living elsewhere, possibly with remote working, without even leaving the ski town.

Re Euros - yeah instructors are good skiers but they didn't always have the soft skills. To be honest this has changed though as the millennial generation has entered the biz as everyone is fully aware of social media and giving students the instagramable experience - they are much better at smiles on faces and joking than the old "follow me" guys.

 

[Disinterested]

its the risk you take. those retention and development programs have been existence for a long time and are quite effective. part of the screening is to identify those who have an interest in remaining and not leaving. in the corporate sector, those program are often tied to a 2-4 year commitment but you cant never count on a person to remain, its just part of the risk. In my career, I retained employees by paying them above the scale, and providing a flexible work environment.

I agree, and I feel like ski schools have no choice but to do this, but this is a major reason why schools don't do this as well as you'd like.

Even a well paid lower end managerial position in the ski industry is <$1000 a week in places where the cost of living eats that for breakfast and only a 5 or 6 month contract; most people who are capable of earning more will run away and do it rather than tough it out.

 

[Ron]

Even a well paid lower end managerial position in the ski industry is <$1000 a week in places where the cost of living eats that for breakfast and only a 5 or 6 month contract; most people who are capable of earning more will run away and do it rather than tough it out.

yeah, thats where I feel the instructors are grossly underpaid. As @James pointed out earlier, (and its apparent you understand this) is the instructors dont get paid if they dont instruct. I know plenty of top-end, senior instructors who have a steady book of privates but the lower-end and mid-level instructors dont have a book of clients. Something has to change. you can't reasonably expect a person to continue to make you money (you=resort) while they (instructors) are at the local food pantry because they dont make enough to feed themselves. its a two-way relationship

 

[Disinterested]

For sure. If you work most days and are booked most of those teaching privates, in a big resort, you are going to be cashing out 40k+ for a season of work. But that is a small elite in most resorts.

 

[Ron]

and 40K ain't living large.....

 

[Bad Bob]

A desirable ski instructor, or teacher of anything, is a personable individual capable of learning and communicating skills. Those abilities translate out very well to most other professions that pay a whole lot better.
That person will probably end up following the money due to sheer need as their lives progress. Having a family and home require more money than teaching skiing offers. They may come back to teaching later in life when the monetary needs are covered and so you get your ski school locker room full of graybeards.

If you can figure out how to change the cycle you will be sainted by some, but the personnel recruiters of the world will probably put a bounty on your head.

 

[Ron]

LOL, too funny but thats kinda my point, the traits that make a successful instructor are the same that make that person successful in most fields, especially in sales. so, if a resort or PSIA is really focused on building a career path for these individuals, they need to accept that they are competing against other careers and fields. I don think the old image and appeal of being an instructor is the same as it was.

 

[James]

Destination resorts are different.

Non destination, midweek can be dead for lessons. Covid maybe changed some of that, work from home and school from home. But school from home is largely over.

With midweek much less work, actually getting a full day’s pay is highly unlikely.

Couple years ago a guy asked me about his son teaching full time and how much work there was. Was there a lot of work during the week? So I directed them to two instructors nearby who are always there midweek. They laughed.
So if they go to McDonald’s for 8 hours they’ll get paid for 8 hrs. Plus free lunch probably