Ski school staffing: '21/'22

[AmyPJ]

Useful in trees.
As H/D said, many learned that way. I did. Then there was being able to wedel, which pretty nuch meant you were an “expert”
A framing at one time was cool.

Try reversing the stem. Every time you go to stem, at least the next turn reverse it-instead of pushing the outside ski out, shorten the inside leg and tip it inside. If you gave 100% focus to the inside ski, eventually it should go away.

Been doing that, it’s improving for sure. Other things help, too. It’s a very ineffective move in powder

 

[markojp]

I get it, but your other post reads as one is woefully inept if they’re not booked most of the season. Since you can’t choose your group lesson instructor, that means privates. I still doubt they’re teaching many random groups since that would likely be a serious pay reduction.

It's simple. Request privates maximize instructor income. It doesn't make group lessons less fun, just generally less lucrative.

 

[markojp]

Been doing that, it’s improving for sure. Other things help, too. It’s a very ineffective move in powder

Wait, someone taught you to stem in powder?

 

[AmyPJ]

Wait, someone taught you to stem in powder?

Actually, yes, the day I took that lesson there was probably 6 inches of fresh and we were attempting to navigate it.

 

[jimtransition]

Where will you be teaching? Have enjoyed your posts from Japan through the years here on SKI TALK, and look forward to your views on skiing and teaching in the US. Sorry about the wages and accommodations, but that's the situation for many in the US, especially those who are in the ski business. This is not meant as a flippant comment

Glad you enjoyed the Japan posts!

I am heading to Mammoth, I worked in the US at the start of my career so it's not entirely new to me. There's still some visa hurdles to get over, so fingers crossed it works out.

 

[MissySki]

I was taught to stem 20 years ago by a younger instructor. I have never been able to kick that horrific habit. It haunts me to this day. So yes, a less experienced instructor can teach some incorrect things that carry big implications. Having an instructor with a great personality who "makes the lesson fun" is all fine and dandy, but if that person lacks the knowledge to teach effective movement patterns, it absolutely can have impactful negative effects.

I actually find stemming useful still in more technical terrain that I’m far from good at, but always working on. I did an adult seasonal program last year with all level 3 instructors almost every weekend of the season. My group was constantly in bumps and trees of all conditions, steepness, and tightness.. Sometimes stemming is a good survival skiing technique in tough spots to make the turn happen. I was always embarrassed that I tend to fall into it to start a turn somewhere dicey when I’m feeling less than confident, but when I discussed it with my instructors they said that using survival skiing techniques strategically is not a bad thing at all. They encouraged it to keep moving, and I have seen progress over time where perhaps I used to need a survival technique but now don’t in certain situations etc. I guess “strategically” is probably the key word. It’s only a problem if you can’t stop it everywhere else that you don’t want it in your skiing.

ETA: I just saw the comment on stemming in powder, now I get the issue haha

 

[Disinterested]

Everyone stems sometimes, even if it's not on purpose, so it evidently works pretty well.

 

[AmyPJ]

Teehee, some don't know just how bad it affected me. Some do. It taught me to not release my new inside ski. Sorry for the thread drift.

 

[Bad Bob]

Like most had always thought using a stem was a really bad idea in loose snow. During a clinic last winter we were told to work with a stem in some kind of manky crud. Now think gliding wedge here, a very narrow stem. Was very surprised at how well that worked for getting a turn initiated.
Used it a couple of times in classes with some very good results in groups that were getting very close to parallels turns.

 

[Rich McP]

Like most had always thought using a stem was a really bad idea in loose snow. During a clinic last winter we were told to work with a stem in some kind of manky crud. Now think gliding wedge here, a very narrow stem. Was very surprised at how well that worked for getting a turn initiated.
Used it a couple of times in classes with some very good results in groups that were getting very close to parallels turns.

What was the benefit? Was it getting the new inside light so it could rotate downhill? More than that, different than that, more subtle than that? Color me curious. (no further thread drift intended)

 

[Bad Bob]

@Rich McP It was a way to initiate the turn in an unfamiliar environment doing something familiar to the students. It was a flattening of the new outside ski that became a comfortable base of support as the inside ski changed edge as well. The key was demonstrate and explain it as a minor displacement of the new outside ski to start the turn. Within a run or two the stemming was gone but it sure eased the pain and suffering when starting to ski loose snow.

 

[markojp]

Steming isn't good or bad, but just another tool in the box, none of which should be a crutch.

 

[James]

A stem can chop off the first part of the turn which is why it can be good in trees or with crappy snow or space limits.

 

[LiquidFeet]

A stem works for skiers who have not yet mastered the release of the old outside ski. It gets the new outside ski up on edge before the fall line without the skier having to let go of the grip provided by the old outside ski.

If one is overterrained, it's a good tactical choice. If one is on steep extremely narrow terrain where missing a turn is a no-go, it's a good tactical choice.

It can also be a crutch for skiers who have no interest in learning to release, because while offering security, if it's habitual it also prohibits advancement to a higher level of skill.

 

[MattFromCanada]

Late to the thread, but I'll chip in a couple of random thoughts and observations to anyone who is interested...


I'm a staff trainer at Cypress Mountain, one of the 3 local mountains in Vancouver. This year there were a good 100+ more applicants for jobs than available instructor positions. There's a flood of people who got their instructor qualifications last year because there was nothing else to do, people who took a year off and are coming back, as well as instructors who couldn't get sponsored visas elsewhere. Everything ranging from L1s with a few years of experience, to ex-demo team members in their respective organizations. I've heard that it's the same at the other local resorts. One advantage being in the city has provided is that many instructors only want to work part-time and have something else to do that prevents them from starving to death.


Re: "All the best instructors are only teaching privates."

From what I've seen, many of the absolute worst instructors are the ones teaching the most privates. They're not particularly good at skiing, they're often out of date with the latest and methodology, and might not actually teach anything in a lesson.

But they're all fun to be with, have built up a rapport with their customers, and know-how to market themselves effectively. They're able to deliver the smiles and the experience the customer wants. Skiing is entertainment, and if all you aspire to is to be able to wedge your way down a green slope, you might as well be doing it with someone you like!

 

[HDSkiing]

@MattFromCanada I sure hope you’re right! We are doing hiring fairs/interviews over the next couple of weekends. Due to natural attrition and the need to not hire as much last season we are looking lite staff wise and hope to get a decent batch size of new hires.

I can tell you that the demand for our season long programs is through the roof, some of them selling out in days. We have a dozen or so schools who want to send students up (it’s a PE credit option) for multi week programs and the phone has been ringing off the hook for private requests.

On the other side of the equation is that everyone from the restaurants to the hotels and every tourist job in between is hurting for people. In Taos and particularly Santa Fe the going starting rate for kitchen help is around $16-18/hour about $3 more an hour than the $15 an hour Taos is offering for new instructors. TSV made a big deal about improving the pay, but the reality is they are behind the competition in town especially in the hospitality areas.

I’m just hoping people really want to have a skiing/riding job enough to offset the employee shortage seen throughout all industries right now.

Re: "All the best instructors are only teaching privates."

From what I've seen, many of the absolute worst instructors are the ones teaching the most privates. They're not particularly good at skiing, they're often out of date with the latest and methodology, and might not actually teach anything in a lesson.

But they're all fun to be with, have built up a rapport with their customers, and know-how to market themselves effectively. They're able to deliver the smiles and the experience the customer wants. Skiing is entertainment, and if all you aspire to is to be able to wedge your way down a green slope, you might as well be doing it with someone you like!

I had a young (early college years) instructor in his first season who was uncertified and really green. He was a decent skier but not at the level of a L2 or 3. Anyway he just had a way with people and the more he worked in group lessons the more private requests he gained and then repeat requests.

One might look at him and think his skiing/technical skills and teaching was not quite up to snuff compared to many of the experienced staff, and that would be a fair assessment. But guests, particularly struggling novices really wanted to ski with him and he got results. Some might look at this green kid and make a judgement about how he has no business taking privates but they’d be wrong.

Job one teaching skiing is about making someone’s great day out in the mountains even better. One thing I’ve learned is that it takes all kinds of people to make a ski school run well, any staff you might not have been impressed with at first blush might surprise you!

 

[4ster]

Job one teaching skiing is about making someone’s great day out in the mountains even better. One thing I’ve learned is that it takes all kinds of people to make a ski school run well, any staff you might not have been impressed with at first blush might surprise you!

I was in the hiring, managing and training end of this business for a long time & this is usually the case. A true professional can do it all but the reality is that you cannot always have a whole staff of dedicated full-time professionals. The trick is to develop a well-balanced team where each individual has strong points & then having a supervisory staff that can schedule & match the instructor with the right individual or group. Allowing people to work to their strengths is when the magic happens!

 

[Nancy Hummel]

@MattFromCanada I sure hope you’re right! We are doing hiring fairs/interviews over the next couple of weekends. Due to natural attrition and the need to not hire as much last season we are looking lite staff wise and hope to get a decent batch size of new hires.

I can tell you that the demand for our season long programs is through the roof, some of them selling out in days. We have a dozen or so schools who want to send students up (it’s a PE credit option) for multi week programs and the phone has been ringing off the hook for private requests.

On the other side of the equation is that everyone from the restaurants to the hotels and every tourist job in between is hurting for people. In Taos and particularly Santa Fe the going starting rate for kitchen help is around $16-18/hour about $3 more an hour than the $15 an hour Taos is offering for new instructors. TSV made a big deal about improving the pay, but the reality is they are behind the competition in town especially in the hospitality areas.

I’m just hoping people really want to have a skiing/riding job enough to offset the employee shortage seen throughout all industries right now.



I had a young (early college years) instructor in his first season who was uncertified and really green. He was a decent skier but not at the level of a L2 or 3. Anyway he just had a way with people and the more he worked in group lessons the more private requests he gained and then repeat requests.

One might look at him and think his skiing/technical skills and teaching was not quite up to snuff compared to many of the experienced staff, and that would be a fair assessment. But guests, particularly struggling novices really wanted to ski with him and he got results. Some might look at this green kid and make a judgement about how he has no business taking privates but they’d be wrong.

Job one teaching skiing is about making someone’s great day out in the mountains even better. One thing I’ve learned is that it takes all kinds of people to make a ski school run well, any staff you might not have been impressed with at first blush might surprise you!

Agree! There is a lid for every trash can!

Critical to put the right person with the student.

 

[HardDaysNight]

the reality is that you cannot always have a whole staff of dedicated full-time professionals.

Well I suppose it’s difficult if you pay them them less than the kitchen support staff!

 

[migdriver]

Agree! There is a lid for every trash can!

Critical to put the right person with the student.

“ a lid for every trash can”.
def the quote of the day! Perfect