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DCDefender

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Posts
2
Location
Washington, DC
Hi Everyone,

Classic request: I need help choosing which skis to test next.

I'm an intermediate but advancing skier. 6/3" 180. I basically spend all of my time on on the frontside of the mountain. About 75% of my time I spend on groomed runs, but find myself spending more and more time in ungroomed territory (bumps, trees, steeper runs) - with a desire to keep pushing. I'm not a particularly aggressive skier, 50 mph is really going fast for me.

I live on the east coast but bounce around for most of my skiing. I travel for work and have family in Utah so I have a lot of options to try out different places. This year I went to Mt. Tremblant, Big Sky, Squaw Alpine, Alta/Deer Valley. I am good for about 10 days a year and ski in whatever the conditions look like when I get there (only 2-3 will typically be on the east coast).

So far this year I've tried (lengths are all upper 170s - 180. Low for my height, but I don't have a lot of weight and don't go that fast so I tend to go a little short):
1. Salomon XDR 84:
Pros: I found them easy to ski and very maneuverable in bumps and quick turn situations
Cons: Not stable at speeds. The day I skied was warm, terrain was choppy, and they rattled a lot at speed and felt every bump. Avoiding them was better than powering through
2. Head Monster 83X:
Pros: Stable at speed. Good for carving on groomed runs
Cons: They were stiff for me in the tail and I felt like bad turns got punished. Tails didn't come out of turns easily. Not maneuverable in bumps and a little heavy feeling
3. Rossignol Exp Ti 88:
Pros: Lots of fun to ski on piste. Really stable at speed. Fun turning. Busted through the groomed runs
Cons: Felt a little stiff in bumps and not the easiest to smear with. Got a powder day with these and they didn't float well for me (Note that I have almost no powder day experience so my technique could be terrible)
4. Icelantic Pioneer 86:
Pros: Really maneuverable. Lots of fun skiing in bumps and snow that has been carved up. Worked well in loose snow and in powder. First ski I ever did with this much of a twin tip - that was fun
Cons: Not great at speed, a little bit of chatter. Didn't really want to carve

I had fun days in everything except the Head. I actually took that back and switched for the Icelantic, and had a much better time the rest of the trip. However, I wouldn't want to buy any of them, haven't found a true love yet.

Based on this I think I'm looking for partial twin tip, about 178 - 180 length, 86 - 92 width, metal not necessary but possible.

So - given these what else should I try? Looking for recommendations that aren't too obscure to find as demos too.

I have one more shot this year. If I find something I like I'll buy it over the summer. If not, I'm looking for good recommendations to try next winter.

Thanks!
 

tch

What do I know; I'm just some guy on the internet.
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Nov 13, 2015
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Blizzard Brahma and Nordica Enforcer 88 or 93/4 are three usual suggestions for what you are looking for.
Both (esp. the Enforcers) will retain a lot of the Rossi E88 feel and strength but be easier off the groom.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
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Reno, eNVy
This years leftover list...
I like @tch's suggestions plus...
K2 Mindbender 90Ti
Salomon QST 92

Honestly, you can spend more next year but if you can find a deal on any of the above skis. Get them.

Next years options...
Dynastar M-Pro 90
Salomon Stance 90
Rossi Black Ops Escaper
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Team Gathermeister
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I live on the east coast but bounce around for most of my skiing. I travel for work and have family in Utah so I have a lot of options to try out different places. This year I went to Mt. Tremblant, Big Sky, Squaw Alpine, Alta/Deer Valley. I am good for about 10 days a year and ski in whatever the conditions look like when I get there (only 2-3 will typically be on the east coast).

Do you have any video of your skiing?
 
Thread Starter
TS
D

DCDefender

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Posts
2
Location
Washington, DC
Do you have any video of your skiing?
Unfortunately no videos right now, and after the events of the last few days I won't be able to get one this year.

I am curious about why you asked? Is there anything I said that may have tipped you off to a problem with my technique? I think that I have a tendency to spend too much time in the backseat. Planning to start off next year with a lesson or two on my first trip to get some good advice.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Unfortunately no videos right now, and after the events of the last few days I won't be able to get one this year.

I am curious about why you asked? Is there anything I said that may have tipped you off to a problem with my technique? I think that I have a tendency to spend too much time in the backseat. Planning to start off next year with a lesson or two on my first trip to get some good advice.

Well, I don't think of it in terms of "problems with technique" when the context is "which ski for me?" I was thinking of it in terms of your development as a skier. You had the misfortune to come along with your post right after I'd read Jackson Hogen's piece, "The Glitch in the System", which IMO was very insightful, if a bit holier-than-thou. In it he suggests that people shopping for skis should present video of their skiing to the sales person in the ski shop, in order to get a better ski for how they really ski. As someone who has had the, um, enlightening experience over the years of watching many big-talking PugSki participants ski, I am all too aware of the truth of much of what Jackson is saying. Note that I am NOT accusing you of big talk; I'm just contextualizing my original question.

I'm an intermediate but advancing skier. 6/3" 180. I basically spend all of my time on on the frontside of the mountain.
I am good for about 10 days a year

These statements suggest that you are not a high level skier, which is fine. What is not fine is that many guys - yes, they are almost all guys - here immediately jump to recommending the biggest, baddest, hottest, stiffest, longest, ballsiest, most popular guy-sticks out there. In short, they recommend the skis they want to be seen recommending. [Ducks cascade of rotten tomatoes. :duck: No, I am not thinking of anyone specifically!] Also, a lot of these guys ski 50 or 60 days a season, and many are industry pros of one sort or another. (Mostly another. :decisions: )

I am more interested in helping you ramp up your fun factor where you are. You can always upgrade after a dozen quality lessons have upped your game significantly. (Come to Taos with us next January!) I have two very competent but not film-worthy friends who are about exactly your size. Both of them ski the Dynastar PowerTrack 84 (no longer made), which is an "intermediate" ski that did not get traction on sites like this, but is ideal for these two guys, one of whom went out and bought a second pair so that when the first one died he wouldn't be without his beloved. They ski them in a modest length (176). This after demoing a whole bunch of skis.

So, with all this in mind, I'm thinking it would be smart to demo some "n-1" level skis rather than the SKI Magazine darlings. Try the Experience 84 rather than the 88. Try the Head V-Series rather than the Monster. Try my special favorite the Elan Wingman CTi in the 82 or 86mm width.

The issues you are having with stability at speed ... There are two parts to this:
  1. Well yeah, the Head Monster 83 is going to be better at speed, but not as easy and maneuverable. It's a trade-off. You can't have it all. (This is why people have multiple pairs of skis.)
  2. There likely technique issues, unless the skis were tuned badly or were way too short. Ask your instructor about that. A coach asked my class, "Why would you want to carve a clean arc at high edge angles?" He got a bunch of answers, but none was what he was looking for. "Stability and confidence," he said. "When I'm there, I'm planted." QED
Hope that helps!
 

Prosper

This is the way.
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If you’re skiing 10 days a year I’d argue that you rent/demo skis for your ski trips and don’t buy unless you’re set on owning skis. It’s much easier to travel and you can get skis specific for the conditions and the type of skiing you intend to do where you’re at. Otherwise, just about all mid 90mm ski will be a compromise, jack of all trades, master of none.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
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Nov 17, 2015
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7,617
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If you’re skiing 10 days a year I’d argue that you rent/demo skis for your ski trips and don’t buy unless you’re set on owning skis. It’s much easier to travel and you can get skis specific for the conditions and the type of skiing you intend to do where you’re at. Otherwise, just about all mid 90mm ski will be a compromise, jack of all trades, master of none.
This is very true. I'm a "quiver" guy, even if I were only skiing in one area I would still want stiff-tailed full camber carving skis for on-piste (a pair each speed range that was accessible at the mountain I'm skiing) for on-piste, and full rocker pivoty scarvy skis for soft snow in the bush. However even if I were to choose a ski for a one-ski quiver, it would be a different ski for soft Pacific Northwest snow (something like Ripstick 96) than for Tremblant (something with a 70 to 85 mm waist and some tip and tail rocker).

If you rent demonstrators, you get the latest and greatest and the cost per ski day is not that much than spreading the cost of your purchase over the days on snow, when after a few years you will be skiing a relic.

However, there is something to be said for having your own equipment. You don't have the hassle and wasted time of renting skis and boots. Priority is well-fitting boots from a good boot fitter, regardless of all else.

Given your preference for having a ski that easily releases the tail, as opposed to one that locks in on target like it has military software, and your preference for a ski that doesn't beat you up (at the expense of you taking more time and more lessons to get better at skiing), I'm going to agree with @Tony S suggestion of a Head V series (probably V8), and @Philpug suggestion of the K2 Mindbender and Solomon QST 92 for what you want. That is from reviews and specs; I haven't tired the skis.

A better plan would be to augment your skiing program with a season's pass to your local bump, and buy skis specifically for that hill. With a season's pass you will spend a lot more time skiing. Even if it's only an hour here and there, it adds up quickly.
 

Johnny V.

Half Fast Hobby Racer
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1,427
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Well, I don't think of it in terms of "problems with technique" when the context is "which ski for me?" I was thinking of it in terms of your development as a skier. You had the misfortune to come along with your post right after I'd read Jackson Hogen's piece, "The Glitch in the System", which IMO was very insightful, if a bit holier-than-thou. In it he suggests that people shopping for skis should present video of their skiing to the sales person in the ski shop, in order to get a better ski for how they really ski. As someone who has had the, um, enlightening experience over the years of watching many big-talking PugSki participants ski, I am all too aware of the truth of much of what Jackson is saying. Note that I am NOT accusing you of big talk; I'm just contextualizing my original question.




These statements suggest that you are not a high level skier, which is fine. What is not fine is that many guys - yes, they are almost all guys - here immediately jump to recommending the biggest, baddest, hottest, stiffest, longest, ballsiest, most popular guy-sticks out there. In short, they recommend the skis they want to be seen recommending. [Ducks cascade of rotten tomatoes. :duck: No, I am not thinking of anyone specifically!] Also, a lot of these guys ski 50 or 60 days a season, and many are industry pros of one sort or another. (Mostly another. :decisions: )

I am more interested in helping you ramp up your fun factor where you are. You can always upgrade after a dozen quality lessons have upped your game significantly. (Come to Taos with us next January!) I have two very competent but not film-worthy friends who are about exactly your size. Both of them ski the Dynastar PowerTrack 84 (no longer made), which is an "intermediate" ski that did not get traction on sites like this, but is ideal for these two guys, one of whom went out and bought a second pair so that when the first one died he wouldn't be without his beloved. They ski them in a modest length (176). This after demoing a whole bunch of skis.

So, with all this in mind, I'm thinking it would be smart to demo some "n-1" level skis rather than the SKI Magazine darlings. Try the Experience 84 rather than the 88. Try the Head V-Series rather than the Monster. Try my special favorite the Elan Wingman CTi in the 82 or 86mm width.

The issues you are having with stability at speed ... There are two parts to this:
  1. Well yeah, the Head Monster 83 is going to be better at speed, but not as easy and maneuverable. It's a trade-off. You can't have it all. (This is why people have multiple pairs of skis.)
  2. There likely technique issues, unless the skis were tuned badly or were way too short. Ask your instructor about that. A coach asked my class, "Why would you want to carve a clean arc at high edge angles?" He got a bunch of answers, but none was what he was looking for. "Stability and confidence," he said. "When I'm there, I'm planted." QED
Hope that helps!

I'm surprised nobody asked about his boots...;)

Bullseyes guys!!!
 

Tim Hodgson

PSIA Level II Alpine
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Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Posts
688
Location
Kirkwood, California
Hey Buddy, skiing is not static and neither are you. What everybody said above is true and may or may not apply to you. But hope is not lost.

Pick a ski and go with it.

Then take a private or upper level lesson to correct your bad habits before they become ingrained ("Practice does not make perfect, it makes permanent.") And to develop your ski technique ("Perfect practice makes perfect performance.")

If you do, your ability will catch up to the ski's ability soon.

BTW, a person whom I respect recently told me that demoing can be overrated. Most all skis are good these days, just pick the category of ski for the conditions you expect or want to ski which you addressed below and let the ski and a good instructor teach you:

About 75% of my time I spend on groomed runs, but find myself spending more and more time in ungroomed territory (bumps, trees, steeper runs) - with a desire to keep pushing. I'm not a particularly aggressive skier, 50 mph is really going fast for me.

I live on the east coast but bounce around for most of my skiing. I travel for work and have family in Utah so I have a lot of options to try out different places. This year I went to Mt. Tremblant, Big Sky, Squaw Alpine, Alta/Deer Valley. I am good for about 10 days a year and ski in whatever the conditions look like when I get there (only 2-3 will typically be on the east coast).
. . .
I have one more shot this year. If I find something I like I'll buy it over the summer. If not, I'm looking for good recommendations to try next winter.

Thanks!

Buy the ski over the Summer to save some money. You can't go wrong. There will be great deals due to the coronavirus.

Based on your location, your user name, the quality of your writing and your analysis (whether or not you have overrated your ability) and your obvious passion for the sport and to learn to ski better, you will be fine with anything you buy if you add appropriate instruction.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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I think the OP, @DCDefender, is long gone. He got more than he bargained for.
 

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