Non Region Specific Ski Town Real Estate

[DanoT]

If you can work from home, in Canada you might as well look for housing in a ski town as it will be less expensive than housing in Canada's major cities.

 

[scott43]

Yeah they're throwing out the work from home carrot..but I think most jobs will not be truly work from home at the end of the day (end of the pandemic?). Pretty sure people will have to go into the office at least once or twice a week. So unless you're in a commutable ski town, I don't think it'll work for many. Still...it would be nice..

 

[jmeb]

Yeah they're throwing out the work from home carrot..but I think most jobs will not be truly work from home at the end of the day (end of the pandemic?). Pretty sure people will have to go into the office at least once or twice a week. So unless you're in a commutable ski town, I don't think it'll work for many. Still...it would be nice..

Maybe. But I think for a lot of people they've recognized that it is entirely possible to be fully remote forever. I don't think it will remain as high as right now, but the longer this goes on (and it's certainly going on for at least this winter) the more and more people who will realize that if they want remote work, it's available.

I'm not moving to a ski town. But I'm also not taking any job that requires a day or two in the office a week unless it is actually a business necessity for some reason.

 

[Alexzn]

Maybe. But I think for a lot of people they've recognized that it is entirely possible to be fully remote forever. I don't think it will remain as high as right now, but the longer this goes on (and it's certainly going on for at least this winter) the more and more people who will realize that if they want remote work, it's available.

I'm not moving to a ski town. But I'm also not taking any job that requires a day or two in the office a week unless it is actually a business necessity for some reason.

I am a bit more pessimistic than you are. We have not yet saw the full impact of remote work on productivity/creativity, etc. Some people thrive in that environment, but most do not. Some people have fully equipped home offices, some have to do on a kitchen table with kids screaming into their ears. So every case is different. But I do think remote work is here to stay until the next recession.

Right now any millennial feels that if a company does not bend to their desire to work from wherever, they can quit and find another job, so the employers do not have that much leverage. And given that we have not had a recession for a decade, a lot of these people simply take it for granted. When the inevitable downturn arrives, those remote team members will be the first to go on the chopping block and with no comparable jobs in ski towns and other companies unwilling to hire people remotely, they may face a tough situation.

I hope we don’t get to that, but that would be the prime time to buy freshly remodeled ski town houses. I may get old by the time this comes about though…

 

[Sibhusky]

When my husband suddenly went full remote in 2003, his boss didn't have a leg to stand on as he was the sole guy whose job hadn't been transferred to India - the ultimate remote work force. Things were in total chaos because of that already. They let him get way with full remote (from 2375 miles away) for 13 years.

 

[Wasatchman]

The problem I see with remote is that there is a huge amount of collaboration, training, etc. that occurs in offices that can't be replicated remotely. Of course there is probably less political maneuvering, etc as well which is a positive. But I think losing the collaboration and potential loss of company culture is a huge minus to permanent work from home.

 

[sparty]

The problem I see with remote is that there is a huge amount of collaboration, training, etc. that occurs in offices that can't be replicated remotely. Of course there is probably less political maneuvering, etc as well which is a positive. But I think losing the collaboration and potential loss of company culture is a huge minus to permanent work from home.

It depends on the office, for starters. Some office cultures aren't that big a positive.

I think there's a very good chance for a whole lot of white collar work to stay hybrid or fully remote, with hybrid possibly looking more like a couple of three-day stints per month in the office. A lot of wear you lose in intraoffice connections and collaboration while remote can be made up with a bit of periodic facetime and effective use of communication tools (video chat and instant messaging of some sort, for starters).

 

[Alexzn]

Permanently remote white collar work is also a recipe for massive outsourcing, with the predictable negative consequences for the US workforce. If you can do your white collar job from Tahoe, someone else can do it from their hometown in Philippines. I'm afraid that may be the biggest "gift" to the US economy from COVID yet. This pandemic has been a disaster that we have yet to fully comprehend.

 

[MissySki]

My company still hasn’t allowed people to come in. Once they do they’ve decided that everyone can work in a flexible manner of their choice. You can stay fully remote, go hybrid, or go back full time. Because of this we are now hiring people all over the country, it’s greatly expanded the talent pool in a tough market. My group has recently hired people in CA, OH, and NY. The plan will be to get together company/department wide a few times per year, and the rest you can be wherever you want. I have some coworkers who have moved out of state now because they can without being tied to an office. I’m not sure what the future holds for other companies’ ways of working, but I do know that I’m constantly bombarded with job offers all over the country in my field right now. All with the same promise of a permanently remote position.

I for one am thrilled! I live in MA and used to commute 1.5-2 hrs each way into Cambridge. It’s been completely life changing to gain that time back everyday and drop the commute. I never thought we’d get the choice to stay home/work from anywhere.

I bought a small 1 bedroom condo on mountain at Sunday River at the end of last season. Something I’ve wanted to do for a long time, and decided to proceed with at the worst time ever. It was miserable, I bid on units for 6 months and got outbid or beat by full cash offers on at least 7 properties before I managed to get mine. Somehow I lucked out and got a unit in my first choice of building that was pretty difficult to get into in terms of supply even pre-Covid. I closed in April and was at the top of where I wanted to go budget wise. Units coming on the market now are still significantly higher than what I paid less than 5 months ago, and I would be priced out for the time being if I hadn’t made a move when I did. So though I certainly paid much more than I would have a year or two ago when I was just casually looking, I still feel it made sense given what I was paying for seasonal rentals every year.

 

[Sibhusky]

My daughter bought a house in Hamilton, MT, just as the state lockdown was beginning, thinking she'd be driving an hour each way to work. (Uncommon in Montana, unlike in the NY metro area where I used to work... I was like, "Poor baby" but I digress. It was a romance thing, not a real estate price-necessitated thing.) So she moved in and was instantly 100% remote. The CEO's husband is an ER doc, so she's well aware of the dangers of COVID, a rare quality in this state. The thing is, although the company had just more than doubled their square footage of office space before this all started, they were already in cramped conditions due to corporate growth. A totally open floor plan, not even semi high dividers, had made it almost impossible to actually work, let alone talk to customers and vendors, etc. So suddenly they all go remote and they keep on hiring. At this point, everything is totally flexible, work remote, part time in office, whatever, no longer assigned desks, because they cannot fit people back into the building. First the buildings were totally empty for months on end, now they probably would have to double office space again. So, working remote is actually reducing the company's overhead. She'll probably be working from home the next two years, and missing the hour commute after all. (And meantime the house has doubled in value.)

 

[MissySki]

Yep, my company has let go of a lot of the space we had previously in Cambridge. The drop in overhead has got to be huge!

 

[Jim Kenney]

My company still hasn’t allowed people to come in. Once they do they’ve decided that everyone can work in a flexible manner of their choice. You can stay fully remote, go hybrid, or go back full time. Because of this we are now hiring people all over the country, it’s greatly expanded the talent pool in a tough market. My group has recently hired people in CA, OH, and NY. The plan will be to get together company/department wide a few times per year, and the rest you can be wherever you want. I have some coworkers who have moved out of state now because they can without being tied to an office. I’m not sure what the future holds for other companies’ ways of working, but I do know that I’m constantly bombarded with job offers all over the country in my field right now. All with the same promise of a permanently remote position.

I for one am thrilled! I live in MA and used to commute 1.5-2 hrs each way into Cambridge. It’s been completely life changing to gain that time back everyday and drop the commute. I never thought we’d get the choice to stay home/work from anywhere.

I bought a small 1 bedroom condo on mountain at Sunday River at the end of last season. Something I’ve wanted to do for a long time, and decided to proceed with at the worst time ever. It was miserable, I bid on units for 6 months and got outbid or beat by full cash offers on at least 7 properties before I managed to get mine. Somehow I lucked out and got a unit in my first choice of building that was pretty difficult to get into in terms of supply even pre-Covid. I closed in April and was at the top of where I wanted to go budget wise. Units coming on the market now are still significantly higher than what I paid less than 5 months ago, and I would be priced out for the time being if I hadn’t made a move when I did. So though I certainly paid much more than I would have a year or two ago when I was just casually looking, I still feel it made sense given what I was paying for seasonal rentals every year.

I'm retired so I don't have a direct horse in the race, but it was so weird last winter riding chairlifts with strangers all winter (wearing masks of course). Most white collar workers middle-age and younger were having the time of their lives working remotely including while on extended ski vacations. Meanwhile older people were quite preoccupied about catching covid, remaining socially distanced, watching real estate go bonkers, and thinking the world is going down the tubes.
The original 9-11 event had a profound effect on my work environment as a longtime civilian employee of a military department. But the pandemic has had an even more widespread impact on our entire culture. And I agree that it will be years before we see how it will all play out.

 

[AmyPJ]

Permanently remote white collar work is also a recipe for massive outsourcing, with the predictable negative consequences for the US workforce. If you can do your white collar job from Tahoe, someone else can do it from their hometown in Philippines. I'm afraid that may be the biggest "gift" to the US economy from COVID yet. This pandemic has been a disaster that we have yet to fully comprehend.

I tend to agree. Look at how phone customer service jobs have been outsourced overseas. And the customer service has gone into the toilet IMO (AT&T, I'm talking about you!) Yes, the disaster of the pandemic is going to prove out in so many ways, including increased healthcare costs long-term.

I will say that I've been working remotely but I work directly with my HOA so much of it would be done "remote" anyway. However, the meetings over Zoom lack the personal contact that allows for developing good interpersonal working relationships and I can't imagine this being sustainable for larger companies long-term. It's especially hard when it's a group of people who have never met in person. It's honestly no different than on-line dating or even dating over the phone where you can't pick up on the nuances of that person's personality. It just.doesn't.work. So, I'm skeptical that it can be a sustainable long-term solution for a lot of businesses.

Some of my fondest memories are of working with fun, fantastic coworkers and the office dynamics that were just awesome. (I have some not-so-fond memories, too.)

 

[Seldomski]

Work from home indefinitely may be OK for some industries. It's been a bit of a nightmare for bringing new people on board where I work. But it has demonstrated to management that work from home is feasible and we can still get (some) things done without being in the office. So it is less of a stigma now to work from home, which is good.

Most white collar workers middle-age and younger were having the time of their lives working remotely including while on extended ski vacations.

We were some of those this past ski season, but our trips were only a week long. I tried to work as little as possible on those - prefer to actually use vacation time when I'm traveling somewhere nice.

My group has recently hired people in CA, OH, and NY.

California may have some weird tax implications for remote workers. I have heard we won't hire residents to work remotely from there because it may expose the entire company to that state's taxes. I may have misheard this.

Back to the topic - I have a dream to get a place closer to the mountains to make skiing, hiking, etc more accessible. As of now, we don't have enough saved to make it a permanent move. It's significantly cheaper to just spend vacation there and rent or stay in hotels (even with the relatively high prices). Cost of living is just so much cheaper where we are now. If we won the lottery, I know what I would want to do... apparently the mountains are where some lottery winners spend their $$ so it's hard to compete. The top 1% of wealth is accelerating away from the lower 99% so it's not going to get better any time soon without big changes from the government - at all levels.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Yep, my company has let go of a lot of the space we had previously in Cambridge. The drop in overhead has got to be huge!

My friend took a job with one of the big companies there. He didn't know if he would have to work in the office so he is renting right near his work but hasn't been to the office once! Still a fun move for a bachelor

 

[Alexzn]

My daughter bought a house in Hamilton, MT, just as the state lockdown was beginning, thinking she'd be driving an hour each way to work. (Uncommon in Montana, unlike in the NY metro area where I used to work... I was like, "Poor baby" but I digress. It was a romance thing, not a real estate price-necessitated thing.) So she moved in and was instantly 100% remote. The CEO's husband is an ER doc, so she's well aware of the dangers of COVID, a rare quality in this state. The thing is, although the company had just more than doubled their square footage of office space before this all started, they were already in cramped conditions due to corporate growth. A totally open floor plan, not even semi high dividers, had made it almost impossible to actually work, let alone talk to customers and vendors, etc. So suddenly they all go remote and they keep on hiring. At this point, everything is totally flexible, work remote, part time in office, whatever, no longer assigned desks, because they cannot fit people back into the building. First the buildings were totally empty for months on end, now they probably would have to double office space again. So, working remote is actually reducing the company's overhead. She'll probably be working from home the next two years, and missing the hour commute after all. (And meantime the house has doubled in value.)

Good for your daughter. The question is whether productivity stays constant or drops in the permanent remote work situation. ultimately its the productivity that brings profits. not having assigned desks and some office time may increase serendipity that has positive impact on productivity though. Time will tell.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

We've a 1bd/1ba trailside condo at Magic and bought almost 3 years ago. Condos are now selling for about 2 1/2 times what we paid. It's very crazy. Grateful for the work from home sitution because we were able escape Fairfield county, CT and move to our favorite part of the state 7 miles from the western massachusetts border. We bought our townhouse in CT for a fraction for what they are selling now. I was able to get a job for a Boston company because it's remote. My SO's company will have them return eventually but only 1x a week or so and the drive is a straight shot down route 8 so he'll be fine doing that here and there. I get contacted periodically with remote work. My current job is a contract one so I'm currently waiting to hear on a job with offices in California, Colorado and Minnesota so the travel opportunities will be fun. Interesting times we are in now that's for sure.

 

[sparty]

Permanently remote white collar work is also a recipe for massive outsourcing, with the predictable negative consequences for the US workforce. If you can do your white collar job from Tahoe, someone else can do it from their hometown in Philippines. I'm afraid that may be the biggest "gift" to the US economy from COVID yet. This pandemic has been a disaster that we have yet to fully comprehend.

You'd think so, but I work in a field (software engineering) where outsourcing overseas has been a thing for years, and the price differences can be a full order of magnitude (we had quotes at $25/hour for an Indian firm, and there are definitely US firms that bill $250/hour). While there are plenty of low-dollar overseas firms out there, the high-dollar US firms se to be doing just fine, and the domestic market for software engineers seems plenty strong.

I've also been involved in three or four attempts to outsource development with different firms; in all those cases, it was worthwhile given that there's no way we could've brought on enough staff in-house to get the projects done, but at the same time, I spent a lot of my time cleaning up and finishing delivered code.

 

[weatherman]

You'd think so, but I work in a field (software engineering) where outsourcing overseas has been a thing for years, and the price differences can be a full order of magnitude (we had quotes at $25/hour for an Indian firm, and there are definitely US firms that bill $250/hour). While there are plenty of low-dollar overseas firms out there, the high-dollar US firms se to be doing just fine, and the domestic market for software engineers seems plenty strong.

I've also been involved in three or four attempts to outsource development with different firms; in all those cases, it was worthwhile given that there's no way we could've brought on enough staff in-house to get the projects done, but at the same time, I spent a lot of my time cleaning up and finishing delivered code.

This is a familiar story. I'm a machine learning engineer / data scientist. I am the off-shored employee since I work for the European company, but we also have employees in India. We'll go wherever it takes to get the talent.

I also am the millennial that you speak of who packed up and moved to a ski town from a suburban office. I gave my terms to my employer -- take it or leave it. Fortunately for both of us they were happy to let me go full-time remote with a raise. I am never going back to the suburban office rat race.

 

[KingGrump]

Like @Jim Kenney , I am retired. Don't have a dog in the fight. I'll just leave this here.