Ski Town Real Estate

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newfydog

newfydog

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The drop jaw sales seem to continue. This one blows me away because a friend of mine bought this and fixed it up not too long ago. I looked at it when it was a stinking trashed rental full of moldy pizza boxes, beer cans, and puke stained old carpet. jeffereson.JPG
 

JohnL

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The drop jaw sales seem to continue. This one blows me away because a friend of mine bought this and fixed it up not too long ago. I looked at it when it was a stinking trashed rental full of moldy pizza boxes, beer cans, and puke stained old carpet. View attachment 142792

OK, I agree 99.999 % with @Alexzn posts on this thread wrt remote work trends.

That said, some interesting LinkedIn data, Bend tops among small cities: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/16/linkedin-the-10-us-cities-where-remote-work-is-most-popular.html
 

JohnL

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(a) Not every industry is software engineering... just saying... there is a lot of competent people in the world that can do simple white collar work for a lot less pay. My point is that unless you live in the neighborhood exclusively populated by tech workers (like Mission in SF), you are still vulnerable to the changes in the other industries.

(b) A lot of tech companies pulled back their outsourcing efforts when they had software engineer teams in-house sitting shoulder-to-shoulder in the open offices. With all the disadvantages of that arrangement, team communication was a breeze. When your US team is scattered between Vermont, Breck, and Hanalei maybe that team communication is lost. Maybe now your Ukrainian programmers can zoom into your meetings just like the surfer from Hanalei, and with 6 hours time difference between Vermont and Hawaii maybe Ukraine is not that far either. If the baseline of what is normal in the US has changed, it is naive not to expect the world to react...

I’ve been a SW Team Lead for combined off-shore and US teams for over 6 years now. Despite the team I lead being off-shore, I have tons of daily interaction with other US-based Team Leads and Developers. Product-based company.

Current team members are from Ukraine and Manila. The Ukrainians are contractors, the Manila team part of an in-house remote site. Over-all, this has been working out very well, pre and during COVID. Yes, the main reason for off-shore workers is cost. That said, having a long-time relationship with a trusted contractor and/or subsidiary has been key for us to make off-shoring work. That, and embedded teams. Since I also code and architect, I’m involved directly with my team’s work. I can give feedback on a daily basis, not just monitor burn-down charts. And I serve as mentor and coach, not task master.

The quality of the work of the off-shore Developers has been amazing. The English of the Manila Developers has been exceptional. Being picky about who you hire, but showing commitment to their career development, is key.

Summary from my albeit anecdotal experience:
  • When remote works, you can find a lot of lower-cost people across the globe and US. Who are pretty good. Most of my companies new tech hires are in Manila.
  • My division has a well-established culture. I’m a newbie at 6 years. Most key workers have 5-15 years with the company, which is rare in Tech. That has helped a lot during COVID.
  • Remote work does well for most of our daily business, but all key strategic decisions made face to face. Pre-COVID, but I expect that to continue since there have been a few key happy hours.
  • All my key contacts in my company were made pre-COVID. I am 5 years from retirement, so remote work not affecting my career path. But if I was 25, would likely think differently. Can recall lots of talks with mentors in the past.
  • Fixed core work hours are needed, but given my leadership position, I can take the occasional 2 hour break. Or afternoon off. And you have to sacrifice a bit on your schedule. I start work earlier than I’d like, but the Manila folks can work the second, vs third shift. That helps keep good people. Regular meetings schedule helps.
  • Rock stars and those in currently hot fields can find a job to fit what they are looking for. But fields generally don’t stay hot for more than 5-10 years. Or get hot again when nobody wants to enter the field decades later. COBOL and mainframe? They are making serious Dogecoin now.
 

SCWVA

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JohnL,
Saw 45 miles worth of newly installed fiber conduit between Davis and the east side of Moorefield today. With the Hyperloop and new fiber, maybe Tucker County, WV is the next silicon valley. :)
 

JohnL

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JohnL,
Saw 45 miles worth of newly installed fiber conduit between Davis and the east side of Moorefield today. With the Hyperloop and new fiber, maybe Tucker County, WV is the next silicon valley. :)

ogsmile

Until some MTBer uproots the cable.

Got bigger mountains in my future. And all the affordable real estate snapped up by the like of @jimmy

You ever buy that motel? :ogbiggrin:
 
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newfydog

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Years ago I was flying back to Bend after meeting with clients in the Bay Area (12 row turbo-prop) Someone asked about working in Bend....My answer "there are a lot of people working for minimum wage, there are a lot with money who don't work. There are 15 people with real jobs, and they are all on this plane"

Now anyone can have a real job from Bend.
 

tball

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Excellent article outlining the various steps Colorado resort towns are taking around short term rentals:

It will change. It always does. Just wait for the next financial shake-out. I bought my place during the dot com bust. I thought I was timing it perfectly, then 9/11 hit. Then the great recession. Then COVID. Financially, I would have been way better off buying two rentals in Denver for the same money, but it wasn't about the rental income for me. It's about all the great times I and my family and friends have had there. The rental income and tax benefits help cover the costs. If it were just an investment, I would have been out long ago.

That said, there is a structural need for affordable housing in these communities. While these proposals make folks feel good for doing something, they don't create affordable housing. Most properties that can't get rental licenses will sit empty except for the few times a year the owners use them.
 
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newfydog

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I remember after a returnable bottle bill was defeated in some state, a friend of mine in politics told me how the container industry had a full time staff, very skilled and professional, who just travelled around defeating local amateurs who thought they could get a returnable bottle bill referendum passed.

I can't believe the hotel industry has not done the same to limit vacation rentals. They sat around while a multi-billion dollar trend rocked the world, resort towns in particular.
 

Wasatchman

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I can't believe the hotel industry has not done the same to limit vacation rentals. They sat around while a multi-billion dollar trend rocked the world, resort towns in particular.
Competition tends to be good for consumers though. I think too much blame on the affordable housing issue is put on short term rentals. Yes, it doesn't help in many cases but do you really think banning short term rentals would really solve housing affordability to any significant extent?
 

Sibhusky

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You know what they say. Location, location, location. $12 million. An in-holding in GNP.

 

Wade

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In that people could get long term rentals, yes. Because right now they've got to go to another town entirely.

I think that’s true to some extent, but it assumes that restricting a property from being used for short term rentals would result in it being offered for long term rental.

There are definitely some properties that would return to the long term rental market. But others would be sold (if owners couldn’t get the returns they’re seeing from short term rentals), or would be removed from the market entirely in cases where owners purchased the property for their own use and have taken the opportunity to rent the property out short term when they’re not around.

It depends on the town, but in many cases, I think the largest impact of restricting short term rentals would be to drive up the price of accommodation for tourists, reduce room availability, and as a result, reduce the number of people visiting.

Which in a roundabout way addresses the issue. By reducing the number of visitors, you also reduce the number of local hospitality and other jobs that are largely driven by tourist spending, and therefore the number of people looking for long term housing. So you probably put a few more properties back into the long term market, you hurt the local economy by reducing the number of tourists and drive out of town the people who’s jobs would have been to provide goods and services to those tourists,

So you’re you’re left with reduced employment and income for locals, but likely a better balance between available long term housing and the people needing it. Pick your poison.
 

Rich McP

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I think that’s true to some extent, but it assumes that restricting a property from being used for short term rentals would result in it being offered for long term rental.

There are definitely some properties that would return to the long term rental market. But others would be sold (if owners couldn’t get the returns they’re seeing from short term rentals), or would be removed from the market entirely in cases where owners purchased the property for their own use and have taken the opportunity to rent the property out short term when they’re not around.

It depends on the town, but in many cases, I think the largest impact of restricting short term rentals would be to drive up the price of accommodation for tourists, reduce room availability, and as a result, reduce the number of people visiting.

Which in a roundabout way addresses the issue. By reducing the number of visitors, you also reduce the number of local hospitality and other jobs that are largely driven by tourist spending, and therefore the number of people looking for long term housing. So you probably put a few more properties back into the long term market, you hurt the local economy by reducing the number of tourists and drive out of town the people who’s jobs would have been to provide goods and services to those tourists,

So you’re you’re left with reduced employment and income for locals, but likely a better balance between available long term housing and the people needing it. Pick your poison.
Breckenridge is in the process of adopting a limit on STR licenses for the primary stated purpose of creating more LTR for low income local workers. The only problem is that the town council has acknowledged the this change to the code will NOT create more LTR for the local low income workforce. Awesome government at work.
 
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fatbob

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I was thinking about asking Breck if I could work remotely from Grand Cayman this winter. Shouldn't be any problem to teach skiing remotely, right?

You may jest but someone is going to develop the Uber of ski instruction where remote instructors analyse the video you're recording on the hill and ping you back annotated vids or drill models or whatever. And how's VR going to operate monolpoly pricing against that? Nix cell service?
 

Muleski

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You may jest but someone is going to develop the Uber of ski instruction where remote instructors analyse the video you're recording on the hill and ping you back annotated vids or drill models or whatever. And how's VR going to operate monolpoly pricing against that? Nix cell service?

You may be aware of this, but there is at least one very skilled ex WC coach who has been coaching virtually this way for 3-4 years. Has a number of athlete clients. Works with them….and their national federation coaches, so that nobody gets all torqued off.
He needs decent video, a tablet and a phone. Or maybe just the tablet. If you have a great eye {he does} know the athlete, their normal setup, and spend some time with them on snow……much can be accomplished virtually.
 
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Lorenzzo

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You may be aware of this, but there is at least one very skilled ex WC coach who has been coaching virtually this way for 3-4 years. Has a number of athlete clients. Works with them….and their national federation coaches, so that nobody gets all torqued off.
He needs decent video, a tablet and a phone. Or maybe just the tablet. If you have a great eye {he dors} know the athlete, their normal setup, and spend some time with them on snow……much can be accomplished virtually.
Baseball and golf have been doing this for a long time.
 

geepers

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You may jest but someone is going to develop the Uber of ski instruction where remote instructors analyse the video you're recording on the hill and ping you back annotated vids or drill models or whatever. And how's VR going to operate monolpoly pricing against that? Nix cell service?

Some day? This is already happening.
 

DanoT

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Video ski instruction has been around for a while.

I did a ski trip to Aspen in 1972, before PCs, cell phones or internet or even VCRs. At the start of a slope there was a guy you gave $2 to, then skied down the slope and were video taped by a cameraman at the side of the run. You then skied over to the cameraman who was accompanied by a ski instructor who critiqued your skiing while you both looked at the replay on the pro TV type camera's viewfinder screen.
 
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