Non Region Specific Ski Town Real Estate

[Pat AKA mustski]

Big name places may see some less fluctuation, but property around indy ski areas often varies with the expected fortunes of the area.

If upgrading your primary residence will improve your life, that's a different story; with interest rates as they are, I'd be willing to take the hit on purchase price right now if we find the right place in the right spot, because of the value return.

Both those points are what I was getting at. Indy ski areas and sudden bursts in purchasing of STR properties ... that is an up and down business In even the best of areas. You have to be able to financially rude the down turns. Many purchased high expecting the rising tide to continue. It won’t. Covid caused a false burst of living wherever and working remotely.

As for purchasing a primary residence... yes. The low interest rates make that a winner right now ... assuming you can live there for the next 10 years. My dad always said, “Never buy a property you can’t live in, if necessary.” We ended up living full time in our 1000 sq ft, uninsulated, mountain cabin- for 3 years. Luckily we liked the neighborhood and do ok with too hot and too cold - and we did have running water. I have my standards.

 

[locknload]

I upgraded my primary residence last year...overpaid...but not so much I couldn't live with it since it is where I hang my hat. I'm doing market research for a small mtn place but I don't think I'd buy right now...things are just too frothy. There's a glut of long term rentals if I want to park myself somewhere for an extended period time and I want to see how things will settle out. Even if they don't dramatically come down, they can't go up everywhere indefinitely. Once we put Covid in the rear-view there will be some people who really didn't want to live in a mtn town year round OR get called back to the office in bigger cities to maintain their salary/lifestyle. Mtn towns are amazing...but not everybody loves a shoulder/mud season. Real estate is never something you want to be in a hurry to buy unless you just have some much $ that it doesn't matter. Good on you if that describes you.

 

[SSSdave]

Given enormous media and political power, the last thing in news stories one is likely to read about causes for high housing prices is the influence of banks and Wall Street. Over decades I've been condemning our Western worlds myopic attitude of endless growth and development with overpopulation. Given recently released census data showing slowing USA birthrate population growth, many prominent newspapers under their Wall Street masters are now releasing stories urging greatly increased immigration as though it isn't obvious such has been extremely disruptive to our society, only benefiting short term economic and political interests. Short sighted interests of those myriads chasing wealth that will never be satisfied until our human world is like a can of sardines.

The cost of housing is tearing our society apart | World Economic Forum

The two institutions with the most to gain from housing appreciation - banks and the government - have fueled the private housing market since mortgage terms were rewritten following the Great Depression. Banks have adeptly parlayed the human need for a stable home into trillions of dollars worth of profits...

For banks, the monopoly of the mortgage 9 market has allowed them to create a home-value arms race - the higher the value of the property, the higher the interest payments and potential profit. Even after the collapse of housing bubbles, government bailouts and favourable bankruptcy rules have limited the risk that banks face from limitless home value appreciation.

Improving renter protections, expanding social housing and more tightly regulating the mortgage market would slow down housing appreciation. Cutting down on short-term rentals and vacation homes also has a dramatic impact on housing affordability...

Another solution would be to limit foreign investment and speculation. When Vancouver passed a 15% tax on all sales to foreign home buyers, the price of single family property dropped 20% before rebounding, giving housing appreciation a short-term respite.

A more dramatic intervention would be to reverse the trend of corporations [as in REITs] getting into the housing market and reintroduce public land ownership. From 2013 to 2015, corporations purchased almost $2 trillion worth of land and buildings in the world’s top 100 cities. Middle and lower-class families aren’t able to compete with corporate property investors...

 

[scott43]

I mean..you're getting pretty cerebral there Dave...but yeah..they talk about the world population leveling off or, horrors, declining, like it's a bad thing. I'm like, have you looked at the state of the world lately?!?!? Sheesh..

 

[chris_the_wrench]

yeah..they talk about the world population leveling off or, horrors, declining, like it's a bad thing. I'm like, have you looked at the state of the world lately?!?!? Sheesh.

I’m like, did you stand in those freaking lift lines this year???

 

[Sibhusky]

Bozeman article
"In 2020, accompanying the fateful announcement that Bozeman will be getting Montana’s first Whole Foods, an avalanche of affluent plague migrants engulfed this town. What was a housing crisis erupted into a housing calamity. In the last year, according to the Gallatin Association of Realtors, the median single family home price in the county shot up more than 45 percent, to $704,750 from $485,000."

"With Bozeman being the home of Montana State University, the pricey housing here endangers the ability of people statewide to attend college. M.S.U.’s campus has enough beds for only about one-third of its 15,000 students, some of whom have children. The remaining 10,000, who pour in from sheep ranches, reservations and the Great Plains, are fed to the landlords."

The New York Times: Opinion | My Beloved College Town Has a Problem: It’s too Popular.

Opinion | My Beloved College Town Has a Problem: It’s Too Popular (Published 2021)

Bozeman, Mont., has big-city problems, but it may not get big-city help.

www.nytimes.com

 

[BS Slarver]

^^^ exactly
From my post #107, it’s beyond nuts

 

[BTaylor]

Similar story to Bozeman, but with a Colorado mountain town focus:

Record-breaking real estate frenzy is changing the culture of Colorado’s mountain towns as locals are priced out

More than $15 billion in property sales in 2020 in seven resort communities marks a 61% increase over 2019. Historic sales volume and sky-high prices are pushing locals out of mountain towns.

coloradosun.com

 

[AmyPJ]

Bozeman article
"In 2020, accompanying the fateful announcement that Bozeman will be getting Montana’s first Whole Foods, an avalanche of affluent plague migrants engulfed this town. What was a housing crisis erupted into a housing calamity. In the last year, according to the Gallatin Association of Realtors, the median single family home price in the county shot up more than 45 percent, to $704,750 from $485,000."

"With Bozeman being the home of Montana State University, the pricey housing here endangers the ability of people statewide to attend college. M.S.U.’s campus has enough beds for only about one-third of its 15,000 students, some of whom have children. The remaining 10,000, who pour in from sheep ranches, reservations and the Great Plains, are fed to the landlords."

The New York Times: Opinion | My Beloved College Town Has a Problem: It’s too Popular.

Opinion | My Beloved College Town Has a Problem: It’s Too Popular (Published 2021)

Bozeman, Mont., has big-city problems, but it may not get big-city help.

www.nytimes.com

My daughter has Montana on her radar as a possible place to go to college. These states (Utah included) are going to drive away students, and the innovation that comes with students, due to high housing costs.

I really believe this wall of cards will come crashing down, and probably not in ways that any of us could have imagined. High housing prices pour over into every aspect of the economy and have an effect on every person, since housing is by far the most expensive monthly expense for those who are not so fortunate to be able to purchase a home with cash. I see it as a roof being piled higher and higher with snow.

 

[scott43]

My daughter has Montana on her radar as a possible place to go to college. These states (Utah included) are going to drive away students, and the innovation that comes with students, due to high housing costs.

I really believe this wall of cards will come crashing down, and probably not in ways that any of us could have imagined. High housing prices pour over into every aspect of the economy and have an effect on every person, since housing is by far the most expensive monthly expense for those who are not so fortunate to be able to purchase a home with cash. I see it as a roof being piled higher and higher with snow.

Funny I just read an article on inflation by an economist from the 60's...

 

[Beach Bum]

Too many rich white people out there. That's probably the Crux of this pandemic inflicting mountain towns and lake towns around the country.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

Too many rich white people out there.

I wonder, are they ‘rich’ or just willing to carry more debt than I?

$130 million ranch, no question there(bloody rich). $700k-$1mil condo/small house that loan isn’t too far out of reach to be approved for if you can bring some cash to the table. I wouldnt be comfortable with that loan, but that doesnt mean a mortgage officer wouldnt approve us.

Im willing to throw myself down a mountain on skis at 60mph and surf with sharks but Im very conservative with money.

 

[Philpug]

Too many rich white people out there. That's probably the Crux of this pandemic inflicting mountain towns and lake towns around the country.

Actually, we are seeing a pretty diverse mix of ethnicities coming to town.

 

[SSSdave]

Besides the remote working narratives, the pandemic has been a catalyst for successful working people that have had long term dreams of possibly moving away from cities to places they have over decades been recreating and vacationing at. Not just mountains but also coastal shores, lake regions, and other pleasant natural regions. Not only because they like those destination but also because of fear virus pandemics are more likely to occur in the future (both natural and man-made) and if so, large urban areas are dangerous places to endure such especially if serious panics evolve.

If a more serious virus arose like was first thought was possible with covid, all these being safe games we played could be a lot more serious. For instance if contagion was really so bad we needed to wash groceries all the time and people do easily catch a disease by simply going into stores and markets unless carefully wearing high end viral masks. If hospitals do become overloaded, there is little reason to use our normally comprehensive urban medical infrastructure as a key reason for living in urban areas. Instead wiser to live where contacts and spread are few where one might hole up until panic settles down.

Such people have over years probably been keeping an eye on real estate of regions to relocate to so have been familiar with typical prices and what has been available. So the pandemic pushed many into considering making their move and when they began looking at housing prices, they were shocked to see fast rising prices that were a lot more than they had been seeing in recent years, pricing them out of dreams. That caused many to panic into reacting quickly pouring gasoline on resort region housing inflation. The more people looking, the more demand pushed prices higher, the greater the fear of being priced out if they don't commit quickly.

Even here in expensive California, there are still many homes available for less than $100k, however they will be manufactured and mobile homes, in places not many would be willing to live at without much chance of employment, much less recreational opportunities. And if mobile homes, there are park and or HOA fees. A lot of such homes are out in the Mojave Desert and poor rural counties like Lake, Butte, and Shasta Counties where government especially law enforcement is constrained by costs with property crimes high. Or on land without water, sewer, utilities, with just mobile homes plunked down.

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[Brad J]

The shift to popular places is only the beginning, It will be followed by another group less affluent service workers. I am a older carpenter and I am sure I could get work , housing would be the issue.

 

[DanoT]

Don't a lot of service workers for Vail live in trailer parks down the road and across the highway? This could be the future direction for a lot of resorts.

At Sun Peaks they set up a bunch of temporary staff trailers while they built 3 three story staff housing buildings.

 

[Brad J]

Don't a lot of service workers for Vail live in trailer parks down the road and across the highway? This could be the future direction for a lot of resorts.

At Sun Peaks they set up a bunch of temporary staff trailers while they built 3 three story staff housing buildings.

I am really talking about carpenters , plumbers, electricians, plasters , masons ,painters, I know most not going to move to live in a trailer park , They may have a commute to work but they are going to have reasonable housing or all these folks will need to get skilled real fast

 

[DanoT]

I am really talking about carpenters , plumbers, electricians, plasters , masons ,painters, I know most not going to move to live in a trailer park , They may have a commute to work but they are going to have reasonable housing or all these folks will need to get skilled real fast

Hence the trailer parks, because it is too difficult to find trades people who these days likely have more work than they can handle.

 

[Brad J]

No trailer park for this guy

 

[Ogg]

No trailer park for this guy

IME, a lot of skilled tradespeople would agree wth you, myself included.