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Skier rescued by bystanders after falling more than 400 feet through jagged rocks at Tuckerman Ravine

James

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From the second one
—————
Using this new entry point, the victim was visible approximately 90 feet from the opening, or 125 feet below the original crevasse opening.
——————
Wow, fall in, end up 125ft down slope under the snowpack. You’re never getting out till much melting occurs.
Now that guy was listed as having “crampons”. Not much info on the first link.
 

Doug Briggs

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I had a friend that survived a grueling accident stuck in a waterfall and was surrounded by snow and rock.

Tuckerman Ravine that can severely challenge you. Along with ravines and couloirs for miles north and south of it on both sides of the range.

I wish the injured person a speedy recovery.
 

JonathanShefftz

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From the second one
—————
Using this new entry point, the victim was visible approximately 90 feet from the opening, or 125 feet below the original crevasse opening.
——————
Wow, fall in, end up 125ft down slope under the snowpack. You’re never getting out till much melting occurs.
Now that guy was listed as having “crampons”. Not much info on the first link.

His son in a televised interview claimed they had "proper crampons" (IIRC his exact words) but from a reliable source I heard the exact opposite (i.e., some sort of traction devices, even though they conditions that day called for full-on mountaineering gear, even technical ice gear).

The January incident by contrast received almost no attention. The Mt W Obs magazine had a detailed piece, but I didn't save it, and even with my membership I can't access the past issues on-line.
The victim had met with a well-prepared winter hiker earlier in the afternoon at or near the summit. The other hiker was so concerned that he lent (IIRC) a ski pole or a pair.
Cut to the AMC caretaker, standing outside at night enjoying the totally dark view of Tucks. Totally dark except for one curious light, moved around horizontally, as if trying to find the best way down ...?
Then the light just plummeted.
Cut to a first responder driving to play hockey, suddenly gets the word, drives to NH DOT garage at Pinkham, snowmobiles up in time to perform CPR on the dying hiker.
 

LiquidFeet

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Wow. No I didn't hear about that one. What happened to the well-prepared winter hiker? Did he leave the other guy behind?
 

James

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Wow. No I didn't hear about that one. What happened to the well-prepared winter hiker? Did he leave the other guy behind?
Me thinks they took different routes. There’s only so much you can do for someone you encounter who’s unprepared and won’t follow advice.
Climbing down the Headwall is just a bad idea. In the dark? I would bet the prepared person tried to talk him out of it.
If you’re practiced with ice gear it’s a different story. But even Ueli Steck, who solo climbed the Matterhorn in less than 2 hrs, fell to his death on an “easy” training climb on Nuptse, preparing for his Everest-Lhotse route.

Memorial Day weekend, the visitor’s center had a whole rack of spike devices for hiking boots. Not actual crampons though. Without toe spikes, those aren’t much use climbing 30+ degrees.

When we were coming down the trail, we passed a young guy coming up for a look for a trip up the next day. (Ah, the young. A quick 4 hr hike to check things out)
He wanted to know about the snow and hiking up the bowl. I asked him if he was skiing and he said he’d be snowboarding. I told him I don’t know how snowboarders do it, skiers can kick steps in with the plastic boots. Plus they have poles. Maybe he could get crampons to fit snowboard boots? Maybe the snow would be soft enough to kick with snowboard boots.

Then there was the mom with a bunch of kids. She had skis, the kids nothing except the oldest, maybe 11, had a smooth bottom rigid plastic sled. I told him he was going to have to bail out to stop, as there’s no runout, only rocks at bottom. They past us still going up about 4:15 before we got to Hermit Lake. I know they all made it down because they passed us on the way down.

Then there was the dad with skis, and 3-4 kids all under 8. Again, they’re still heading up, maybe they get to the bowl at 4:30. The kids are dressed the same as any warm spring day in town. Presumably, the guy had raincoats in his pack. Still, it’s easy to slip on the low angle snow just moving around and there’s rocks everywhere.

That group we actually mentioned to the caretaker when we stopped at Hermit Lake. He said he’d talked to them.
 

JonathanShefftz

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Correct on the two hikers in Jan '12 -- the article in the Obs magazine said they met briefly at or near the summit, the well-prepared hiker was concerned for the other hiker, provided some advice and maybe (my recollection might be wrong here) provided him with a ski/trekking pole or two. (I'm questioning my recollection on the latter point since now I'm wondering how he planned to get it back ... maybe asked him to leave it at PNVC? ... or maybe gave him one of a pair of old junky ski poles?)
Only when he read about the incident did he realize the eventual fate of the ill-prepared hiker.

I didn't even think about it until now that nine years after reading that article I would go through a similar after-the-fact realization, as recounted on p. 15 here:
More on that incident in my ESAW write-up on p. 13 in that same TAR issue.

(Once this spring, my friend Pete from that article happened to be touring with my friend C who was with me when I found a dead hiker on Mt Adams WA back in 2016 and with my friend Dr W whom I called upon his arrival for our skimo training session a couple months ago to instead report to the ambulance for the deceased patient we were transporting off the hill -- at one point during their tour, one of them cheerfully announced, "if you tour with Jonathan, you're pretty much guaranteed a dead body.")
 

JonathanShefftz

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[...]I told him I don’t know how snowboarders do it, skiers can kick steps in with the plastic boots. Plus they have poles. Maybe he could get crampons to fit snowboard boots? Maybe the snow would be soft enough to kick with snowboard boots.[...]
Yep, even the most ill-prepared skier still has ski poles with ski boots that are great at kicking steps -- providing traction within those steps, often just very precarious holes in firmer conditions, not so great, but at least it's something.
Crampons with strap systems (which have improved a lot in recent years) fit snowboard boots just fine, and of course a snowboarder can use an ice axe, but pretty rare to see that in Tucks.

And very true on that lack of runout. Those rocks always come up on you quicker than you think! Even after seeing a lot of scary incidents with the lack of a run-out in late-season conditions, and being very mindful of that factor, so many times I've thought at the end of a late-season descent, Wow, those rocks sure came up more quickly than I thought they would...
 

Tricia

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Yeah, that’s not a fun hike down, especially carrying another person!
I woudln't want to walk down it carrying a peanut butter sandwich, let alone another human being. :geek:
 

Yo Momma

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What happened to our decision making processes? I'm amazed but feel for the emergency crews tasked w/ cleanup after the fact. That's a job that deserves a lifetime pension, full tax exemption and full on health coverage for life as a supplement to Medicare. That would be a true Thank You for the work rescue teams do.
 

crgildart

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Sounds like they tried the same make Rise To The Top Fell To The Bottom of a couple years ago.. similar story..
 

JonathanShefftz

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Sounds like they tried the same make Rise To The Top Fell To The Bottom of a couple years ago.. similar story..

RT^3 was skiing down (the Seven, in King Ravine) when some snow gave way (his description was strange, but it actually matched up with the strange snow conditions at the same -- about the only strange part of his account that made sense), which in turn caused one binding to release, after which he Fell To The Bottom (losing his fully loaded Beretta Px4 Storm 9mm handgun in the process, despite his Level Whatevernumberitwas holster), then managed to hike out on his own, no doubt thanks in part to his helmet, although no thanks to his first aid kit that included a bp cuff, saline drip, and stethoscope.

By contrast, this pair at the time of the incident was attempting to ascend steep firm slick terrain w/o helmet, crampons, ice axe, or self-arrest ski pole grip.

Overall, the former, although lacking any ski mountaineering gear, just got unlucky, and the story became especially memorable only b/c of his extraneous gear.
The latter also lacked any ski mountaineering gear, and sadly incidents like this are so inevitable as to become almost instantly forgotten.
 

JonathanShefftz

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What happened to our decision making processes? I'm amazed but feel for the emergency crews tasked w/ cleanup after the fact. That's a job that deserves a lifetime pension, full tax exemption and full on health coverage for life as a supplement to Medicare. That would be a true Thank You for the work rescue teams do.
I wish. In the U.S., at least outside of national parks, almost all of us backcountry ski patrollers, SAR teams, etc. are purely volunteer.

My favorite conversation regarding this, as Mount Greylock's Thunderbolt trailhead, with some skiers who noticed my patrol jacket:
"This place has a ski patrol?"
"Yep, sure do. We even have a rescue cache with a sled near the top."
"Wow, that's so cool!"
"Yeah, come to think of it, it kind of is."
"I mean, you get paid to ski here!"
"Um...."
 

James

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Sounds like they tried the same make Rise To The Top Fell To The Bottom of a couple years ago.. similar story..
I can’t remember the reason he had a sidearm. Bears or humans? Not many bears in the alpine even in summer afaik, in the trees, wasn’t it late winter?
then managed to hike out on his own, no doubt thanks in part to his helmet, although no thanks to his first aid kit that included a bp cuff, saline drip, and stethoscope.
Lol. Did not know that part.
I’m curious as to what possible use blood pressure is far from anything where something could be done about it. Saline drip?? Maybe some plain water to not get dehydrated would’ve been better.

741746FE-5C88-4B80-940B-4D0E3AE5E581.jpeg

This is not Mt Washington. It’s from a blog on a K2 expedition. But turn down the pitch, even the ice, and it’s not that different in terms of what holds you on. Once you start sliding, even on “snow” where you could kick in a little, how are you going to stop?

Btw, what is the preferred technique to self arrest with crampons when sliding? I presume it’s feet up if you’ve got speed already?
 

JonathanShefftz

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Gray wolves. Even though New England doesn't have gray wolves. And the entire history of adult humans being attacked by gray wolves in Eastern North America (going back to colonial times) = zero.
BP cuff could be used as a tourniquet. Even though the whole point of a tourniquet in the backcountry is being able to improvise with whatever you have.
At least those were his ostensible reasons.

I ended up messaging him a bit, since I had originally been curious about the snow sliding.
(He said it wasn't an avalanche, and given the strange snow conditions at the time, that was the only strange part of his story that made sense.)
The bottomline was that he thought military stuff was cool, so he almost always carried a loaded gun, and the first aid kit from a gift from a former army medic.

Self-arrest is often more wishful than feasible. If I slip just a little bit while on the ascent, I can stop myself immediately with my self-arrest ski pole grip (Grivel Condor, but BD Whippet is the only real option these days).
But with any speed, especially while skiing, I don't have much hope. (Hence keep the speed under control on anything steep!)
Correct on not trying to self-arrest with boot crampons. Very dangerous, since if they catch you'll just flip yourself into all sorts of strange orientations.

Picture below is Mount Washington that spring after driving up the auto road to ski Great Gulf.
I wanted to borrow a gun from my partner, but unfortunately as a responsible gun owner he wouldn't go along with that for a photo shoot -- but he did provide with me with a real shotgun bandolier with real cartridges!
Then I borrow a toy stethoscope and bp cuff from my daughter.

7 Toy stethoscope & BP cuff but real shotgun ammo.jpg
 

Doug Briggs

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RT^3 was skiing down (the Seven, in King Ravine) when some snow gave way (his description was strange, but it actually matched up with the strange snow conditions at the same -- about the only strange part of his account that made sense), which in turn caused one binding to release, after which he Fell To The Bottom (losing his fully loaded Beretta Px4 Storm 9mm handgun in the process, despite his Level Whatevernumberitwas holster), then managed to hike out on his own, no doubt thanks in part to his helmet, although no thanks to his first aid kit that included a bp cuff, saline drip, and stethoscope.

By contrast, this pair at the time of the incident was attempting to ascend steep firm slick terrain w/o helmet, crampons, ice axe, or self-arrest ski pole grip.

Overall, the former, although lacking any ski mountaineering gear, just got unlucky, and the story became especially memorable only b/c of his extraneous gear.
The latter also lacked any ski mountaineering gear, and sadly incidents like this are so inevitable as to become almost instantly forgotten.
Wasn't RT³ putting on his ski boots after hiking in hiking boots? I could be remembering a different incident. Otherwise your recollection of his incident was as you described. He caught a LOT of flak for it on Epic and more so on TGR. He was a brave lad to post there.
 

JonathanShefftz

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The ski outing you're referencing from was from the prior year, when he ascended the Seven before skiing it (i.e., as opposed to hiking up a trail first, as he did to great fame in 2014).
Partway up, he switched from his hiking boots to his ski boots, but with his ski boots still clipped into his skis.
I had read that trip report at the time on Epic and found many elements baffling (especially the "perfect avalanche snow!" reference), all of which were consistent with the 2014 trip report in a way (i.e., not making much sense).
The prior year's trip report was then resurrected to much amusement, to the extent that when we hiked over to the top of Airplane from the Airforce lot in 2014, another skier called out to me,
"Hey, wadya think?"
... as he pretended to try to switch to his ski boots with them still clipped into his skis, to which both of us almost collapsed with laughter in the ultimate inside joke of sorts.
(Whenever I do the reverse I always think of RT^3.)
RT^3 also posted to Facebook, plus another ski-related forum (registering with his Rise To The Top username from Epic), as well as to an AR-15 forum.
At first the peanut gallery was somewhat supportive, although also very curious, then when the gun retrieval made the news, everything turned.
Then he got a one-page piece in Backcountry magazine that left out all the baffling aspects.
 

James

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He got some support on epic as I recall. It dwindled as he kept justifying his ridiculous choices and more came out. On tgr it was pretty merciless on all aspects, even leaving out the gun. I think he managed to retrieve the gun eventually? Don’t remember.

Anyone read The Last Traverse ? On the Black Hawk rescue in Franconia Notch? Or somewhere near. It may be next on my list. I just went through an Everest redux. Which somehow led into reading The Serpent about Chatles Sobrahj, serial killer in ‘70’s Thailand./Nepal/India. Also saw the Netflix series.
 
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JonathanShefftz

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Two hikers found the gun. Fortunately they were familiar with gun safety and hence were able to retrieve it to bring it down to the police. (I would not have trusted myself to bring it down safely in my pack!)
When I was staying at the RMC Gray Knob hut later that spring, the caretaker told me he had been instructed to look for it, but didn't know why the skier had been armed -- the caretaker had a great reaction when I told him about the gray wolves!

I haven't read the book, but I'm somewhat skeptical given the author's prior book, which received favorable press yet was largely a mix of unsupported speculation combined with ignoring the 300 lb gorilla in the room (i.e., a wx fx that rendered the trip plan many many degrees past ill-advised).
 

Wilhelmson

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Some people just carry a weapon because they can. It would be a good way to attract help if they were hurt or stuck.
 

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