Skis for carving in powder

[karlo]

In the Mogul Stoke with Marcus Caston and Jonny Moseley thread, @Muleski wrote "Not a lot of these guys carve their turns like that in deep pow." Are there skis shapes, and particular ski models, that are great for carving in powder? I mean deep powder in which one doesn't hit bottom. To date, my powder skis have ranged from 100-110 in waist, full rocker. But, I can't seem to carve them. I feel like its more a float then rotate. I haven't gone to a cambered ski, because the rockered skis are recommended for flotation.

As to actual models, I welcome either alpine or alpine touring recommendations. Thanks.

 

[Rod9301]

Any wide ski will work. Put it on edge and it will turn.
No rotation needed, and if you want to tighten the turn, tip your skis more and pressure the tips by pulling your feet back.

 

[HDSkiing]

In the Mogul Stoke with Marcus Caston and Jonny Moseley thread, @Muleski wrote "Not a lot of these guys carve their turns like that in deep pow." Are there skis shapes, and particular ski models, that are great for carving in powder? I mean deep powder in which one doesn't hit bottom. To date, my powder skis have ranged from 100-110 in waist, full rocker. But, I can't seem to carve them. I feel like its more a float then rotate. I haven't gone to a cambered ski, because the rockered skis are recommended for flotation.

As to actual models, I welcome either alpine or alpine touring recommendations. Thanks.

By carve you mean that when tipped the snow under the ski moves in a front to back direction and not at an angle?

In many respects, what makes a good powder ski is the same as what makes a good water ski, hence the rocker or reverse camber that keeps the tips from diving and provides greater floatation, add to that a wider base and better float. Even narrower skis will carve in powder but they may be below the surface a foot or two with those you had to employ a bit of a rocking motion to pop those tips back up, but they carved.

If you think about how a good snowboarder rides in powder, sort of like surfing as opposed to coming back perpendicular to the fall line (slamming the skis sideways like a hockey stop to slow down) generally keeping a little speed that transfers into energy and easier turn initiation and rebound, that might help you get that unbroken carve line you are looking for, regulating your speed by the turn shape and size all dependent on the grade.

When I’m fortunate to ski powder that is at least a couple feet or more deep I’m on my K2 Pinicle 95, which really ski quite well in all conditions out here in the Rockies and I have skied some really deep and steep stuff off piste (and out of bounds) in them. That’s the widest ski I have so I can’t really speak to specific models of powder skis. If you are looking for something to go into the back country or heli skiing I’m sure someone will have recommendations on which ski they find best for given conditions. Good luck

 

[PTskier]

rockered skis are recommended for flotation.

It isn't really carving, but I know what you mean. We don't want flotation. We don't want to be surfing or waterskiing over the snow. We want to be in the snow skiing in 3 dimensions. You don't need to ever see your ski tips.

Visualize an airplane banking in a turn in the sky. Visualize your skis edged down in the snow banking around a turn. The pressure against the bottoms causes the skis to bend in a reverse camber, and they arc you around in a turn. To release the turn just relax your legs, the skis will flatten, maybe they'll rise to the surface, maybe they won't, then you roll them to the other edge for the next turn and allow your legs to extend. It really is that simple. It's a beautiful feeling. I'm on Head Rock n Roll 95. Standard camber, no rocker. They're sweet.

 

[fatbob]

I've truly never understood the "in the snow not on it" rhetoric. It always sounds a little retrogrouchy to me. If the snow is soft 3D it doesn't matter how deep you are in it, the feeling of "float" is the same for any given density. So a carve is not a carve but a build up of resistance against the base of the skis.

Of course if you are hitting bottom your edges might be carving.

 

[DanoT]

I'm calling "Skis for carving in powder" trolling.
There is nothing for edges to carve into in or on powder so you don't even need skis with metal edges in powder.

 

[karlo]

tighten the turn, tip your skis more

rocking motion to pop those tips back up, but they carved

help you get that unbroken carve line you

It isn't really carving, but I know what you mean. We don't want flotation

pressure against the bottoms causes the skis to bend in a reverse camber, and they arc you around in a turn

So a carve is not a carve but a build up of resistance against the base of the skis

nothing for edges to carve into in or on powder

Thank you! All of this makes sense and has made me think about my question more. Flotation above the surface, or 3D under the surface, what is it that I want or unsatisfied with? In a carve, on a hard surface, one can enter a carved turn really early, well before the the tips point down the fall line. With the skis I've tried, regardless of whether the ski further on top or further below (I say further on top, rather than on top, because I've never encountered a ski that is actually on top), they tend to porpoise up at the end of the turn. Kinda like I wish the rockered tip were not there, preventing me from going into my typical right-on-top-of-the-ski transition, which prevents me from tipping the ski early relative to fall line. Of course, if the powder is shallow enough, I have no problem. The problem is encountered when it's deep enough that I either don't touch bottom, or barely touch bottom. Is out my technique? Or, should I have less or no rocker?

 

[Philpug]

I've truly never understood the "in the snow not on it" rhetoric. It always sounds a little retrogrouchy to me. If the snow is soft 3D it doesn't matter how deep you are in it, the feeling of "float" is the same for any given density. So a carve is not a carve but a build up of resistance against the base of the skis.

Of course if you are hitting bottom your edges might be carving.

"In the snow and not on it" is a phrase that I will use often but really isn't applicable here. It really has to do with leverage in the center of the ski where the boot is. Think about when you are on firm conditions, i.e. "on the snow" when you are on a skinnier ski, it is easy to roll the ski onto edge because the edge is under the boot. When you are "on the snow" when you do that, because the edge is wider than the boot, the boot actually comes away from the snow and the leverage changes (I know this is a sensation I feel in my ankles and do not like it) . This is where being "in the snow" (or 3D snow) will absorb the ski allowing the boot to stay at the same height above the snow.

I'm calling "Skis for carving in powder" trolling.
There is nothing for edges to carve into in or on powder so you don't even need skis with metal edges in powder.

Maybe it's a miss use of words and he is looking for a turny powder ski verses one that wants to make "figure 11's"?

 

[mdf]

I know what he means. He wants a ski that works with the tail following the tip, in a manner similar to carving except that it is supported by a "platform" under the whole base insted of the edge.

I became aware of this when I demoed and hated Soul 7's -- they felt incredibly vague and did not want to do "powder carving."

If you think about it, it is not surpizing that a ski optimized for "smearing" will not be good for this approach. This dichotomy has little to do with how much float or the old "in the snow vs on it" saw. I've tried skis even wider that felt very precise.

 

[fatbob]

"In the snow and not on it" is a phrase that I will use often but really isn't applicable here. It really has to do with leverage in the center of the ski where the boot is. Think about when you are on firm conditions, i.e. "on the snow" when you are on a skinnier ski, it is easy to roll the ski onto edge because the edge is under the boot. When you are "on the snow" when you do that, because the edge is wider than the boot, the boot actually comes away from the snow and the leverage changes (I know this is a sensation I feel in my ankles and do not like it) . This is where being "in the snow" (or 3D snow) will absorb the ski allowing the boot to stay at the same height above the snow.

 

[fatbob]

Interesting. Maybe because I only ever got on "fat" skis after snowboarding for some time the need to feel my foot over the edge just isn't a thing for me. I get the physics - I'm not sure that I believe that the boot being close to the snow surface is what makes it right.

I think when we describe skis as playful or chargey we are putting them on a spectrum of low speed handling and pivoting to higher speed stability and tracking. There is room for all flavours and a versatile skier can adapt to what's on their feet.

Interestingly when I tested a bunch of stuff at the weekend in the limited confines of an indoor slope the ski I got on worst with was the Enforcer 93. I just couldn't get up to speed and the space to do the GS type turns is felt it wanted to do and it was less sympathetic to fall line flicky turns in soft bumps than all the wider skis I tried. Now I don't think it's a bad ski - it was just not the tool for the conditions.

 

[MWL]

I love my 190 Moment Bibbys - I take them out any time there's even an inch or two of new snow. They're pretty stout, but playful at the same time. They charge, they carve, they dominate powder.

 

[Lorenzzo]

In Masters training on powder days the coaches talked about carving in powder on our skinny GS skis. They simply meant turning the skis in an arc vs. pivoting around our leg axes. The first day I tried it with them I realized that while on solid snow surfaces I was really technical-minded, in 3D I had no technical thoughts at all. Both approaches were to my benefit and to my detriment.

IMO both types of turns are worth pursuing. As are both approaches to them.

 

[Mothertucker]

Line Pescado.

 

[Lorenzzo]

I love my 190 Moment Bibbys - I take them out any time there's even an inch or two of new snow. They're pretty stout, but playful at the same time. They charge, they carve, they dominate powder.

I just ordered these in 184. I went back and forth as to 184 vs 190 ad nauseam. What's your height and weight? You find the 190 to be quick/playful without much work?

 

[tromano]

The techniques for good skiing on a groomer apply directly to powder.

Equipment applies differently than on a groomer. Softer boot help as the correct balance requires more subtle movements. Generally a softer ski is better as it will bend more easily. Since pow tends to slow you down naturally you will want to either seek steeper slopes or use a bit softer ski. Rockered tips help, full rocker helps, but you still need to bend the ski.

Practice carving technique in all conditions and clean up any residual non helpful movement patterns.

Follow good snowboarders on a powder day and match their lines.

 

[slowrider]

For deep snow (+4ft.) I prefer +110mm waisted skis. The floatation gives me speed when I need it. Smeared turns aren't my default move, I submerge and tip the skis for speed reduction and direction change. If I can ski the base of the snowpack I prefer narrow skis.

 

[Mothertucker]

The techniques for good skiing on a groomer apply directly to powder.

Equipment applies differently than on a groomer. Softer boot help as the correct balance requires more subtle movements. Generally a softer ski is better as it will bend more easily. Since pow tends to slow you down naturally you will want to either seek steeper slopes or use a bit softer ski. Rockered tips help, full rocker helps, but you still need to bend the ski.

Practice carving technique in all conditions and clean up any residual non helpful movement patterns.

Follow good snowboarders on a powder day and match their lines.

You had me until that last line.

 

[karlo]

I know what he means. He wants a ski that works with the tail following the tip, in a manner similar to carving except that it is supported by a "platform" under the whole base insted of the edge.

He knows what I mean.

softer ski is better as it will bend more easily

Sounds right. No need for stiff to hold an edge on ice. But, that's torsional stiffness, right? You mean (longitudinal?) stiffness?

As to the porpoising I referred to, watching another Marcus Caston video, skiing in powder, gave me an insight. I'm thinking i want to finish the turn and be upright on my base in transition. But, the porpoising prevents me. Maybe I should think of porpoising like going over a mogul. Go over it and land on my base, or even air carve and land on my edge (but not really the edge in powder).

Anyway, I'd like to not porpoise. So, maybe a ski with less or no rocker, and soft so it will bend? I'll also try demo'ing the Bibby's and Pescado's that @MWL and @Mothertucker suggest.

 

[mdf]

Anyway, I'd like to not porpoise

Much less porpoising needed with modern skis, midwidth and up.