Slide With Respect Survey Launch

[4ster]

Red jacket was making a turn. Black jacket hit him from behind. 100% the fault of black jacket.

I only needed to watch once to make this conclusion. Anyone who thinks differently should not be on the slopes.
Patrol was already attending to an incident on the knoll. Black jacket should have been shutting it down way sooner.

If someone slams on the brakes on the interstate and comes to a complete stop for no reason, and gets slammed into from behind, they MAY not be at fault, but they may also be an idiot.

This is also true & has become a much too common occurrence but until there is a concerted effort to educate skiers & riders we need to expect the unexpected!

 

[BLiP]

Black jacket should have been shutting it down way sooner.

But black jacket is clearly an expert! I bet he raced for a year or two in middle school and kills it in NASTAR. He was totally in control until that red gate (err skier) moved into his line.

 

[martyg]

A quick note... Thanks to everyone who participated. If you haven't participated, please do. If you haven't, please share with your friends.

I was just at race camps at Copper, and then BoP at Beaver Creek. I spoke to many patrollers. They assured me that management, "At the highest levels", are aware of the survey.

Thanks to those who participated we have reached a critical mass that is tough to ignore. The number of responses is impressive for a survey this long, and each survey has 160 variables. Students will be providing a top line report this Monday. Over the Christmas break faculty will be combing through the data. We expect that final top line and more detailed analysis will be available sometime in January.

The S23 semester will be making the data actionable. Our goal is to create a safer environment for all. The data will dictate the messaging that we create, and the actions that ski area management can execute on. More to come.

Thanks so much.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Please do participate in the survey.

Slide with Respect Project at Fort Lewis College

We are conducting research that captures the user ("snowslider") perspective on ski areas, and using the results to inform messaging that we are providing to everyone to use free of charge. Learn more about the project, access our research and see our messaging.

www.slidewithrespect.com

'If' you have an axe to grind, I do, who doesn't, best to leave that to conversations with friends, or strangers on the chair, or strangers on the internet as we find each other here, and just answer the questions with humble honesty. No-one will know who you are, and your participation makes the whole conversation better, even if I disagree with you.

 

[slow-line-fast]

But black jacket is clearly an expert! I bet he raced for a year or two in middle school and kills it in NASTAR. He was totally in control until that red gate (err skier) moved into his line.

Fair point. Racing doesn't make you responsible. But time, experience, and respect for others on the hill do.

It can be good to revisit:

Your Responsibility Code - Colorado Ski Country

www.coloradoski.com

3. People ahead or downhill of you have the right-of-way. You must avoid them.

FIS code of conduct on the slopes | skiarlberg.at

To ensure that all winter sports enthusiasts return to the valley safe and sound, everyone should familiarise themselves with the safety information!

www.skiarlberg.at

Choice of route
A skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way that he does not endanger skiers or snowboarders ahead.

Overtaking
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.

 

[BLiP]

Fair point. Racing doesn't make you responsible. But time, experience, and respect for others on the hill do.

Full sarcasm. Black jacket is an idiot. As are all the other "experts" that treat crowded runs like their own private SG courses.

 

[Seldomski]

A quick note... Thanks to everyone who participated. If you haven't participated, please do. If you haven't, please share with your friends.

I was just at race camps at Copper, and then BoP at Beaver Creek. I spoke to many patrollers. They assured me that management, "At the highest levels", are aware of the survey.

Thanks to those who participated we have reached a critical mass that is tough to ignore. The number of responses is impressive for a survey this long, and each survey has 160 variables. Students will be providing a top line report this Monday. Over the Christmas break faculty will be combing through the data. We expect that final top line and more detailed analysis will be available sometime in January.

The S23 semester will be making the data actionable. Our goal is to create a safer environment for all. The data will dictate the messaging that we create, and the actions that ski area management can execute on. More to come.

Thanks so much.

I would suggest running the survey again, but closer to the middle of ski season or just after it has ended (so Feb to May timeframe). I took the survey at close to the largest time since my last ski trip. It had been ~9 months since I had actually been on skis.

I don't know if this delay was intentional or simply result of trying to do this ASAP and in line with the academic calendar.

 

[martyg]

I would suggest running the survey again, but closer to the middle of ski season or just after it has ended (so Feb to May timeframe). I took the survey at close to the largest time since my last ski trip. It had been ~9 months since I had actually been on skis.

I don't know if this delay was intentional or simply result of trying to do this ASAP and in line with the academic calendar.

I hear you. However, as you so correctly assessed, we need to align with the academic calendar.

We have a meeting with faculty next week. I suspect that this effort is just the start of a legacy program for FLC.

 

[Scruffy]

Absolutely!
If someone "cuts right in front of you", or "suddenly stops", such that you can't avoid him, you were too close to him carrying that much speed to begin with.

The guy coming down was unable to avoid the downhill (ahead) skier.
Looking further into it, he underestimated his ability to avoid the downhill skier, but why?
It could be, as is often assumed, that he is a relatively new skier and doesn't know how hard it is to stop at speed. It could also be that he has been skiing many years and is used to carving high g-turns on his edges, but has little experience at skidded turns (i.e. he has little experience making the typical turns taught to skiers in ski school); skis do not have ABS.

I remember being absolutely shocked at how little influence I had on my direction when not having my edges locked into their self-created grooves, after skiing mostly arc-2-arc for a few decades. I only discovered this, because I was skiing while feeling poorly, and trying to be safe, and not skiing arc-2-arc.

This, imho, can happen to self-taught skeirs, but is unlikely to happen to racers or folks who take lessons; racers, through having to navigate skis around turns too tight for their skis, and lesson takers through lessons, are very familiar with how skis behave when skiing mostly sideways. Self-taught experienced speed-addicted skiers usually reserve sideways skiing for stopping, not turning (don't ask me how I know).

Yeah...stop it at 1:03 and then go frame by frame ( period key. comma to frame by frame backwards .) Black jacket doesn't even see red jacket until the last second and then leans back and attempts a hockey stop-bad news-just skids straight into red jacket with no deviation of line at all.

 

[spudbumkin]

There was already an incident that the patroller was attending. It's quite possible the victim was skiing to avoid them and then got slammed by the guy coming in too hot. Too much speed, not enough skill.

I think one youtube commentator put it best though

I agree, too many people equate speed to skill. Applies to all activities too, driving a car, bike riding, scooter shredding, sex etc.

 

[François Pugh]

But black jacket is clearly an expert! I bet he raced for a year or two in middle school and kills it in NASTAR. He was totally in control until that red gate (err skier) moved into his line.

Nah, if black jacket had raced a year or two, he would quickly realize what he was doing wasn't working and switched tactics, maybe decide to give up on braking and swerve behind the skier.
Sorry for contributing to the side track, but it is page 5, so all's fair.

 

[Rich McP]

You could just go through youtube crash videos and see the comments. It’s incredibly depressing.

This in the last year, for an 8 yr old video. Lots of similar.
—————-
The guy in the red was skiing at a 90 degree angel to the run. He totally cut him off because the guy going down was taking a slight angle to go to the right of all the people.
——————-

Are you saying one guy was in red and one was in grey?

 

[fatbob]

Any news of the output of this yet?

I suspect it would have most reach if it could be released in the wake of the Paltrow case if the world hasn't already moved on.

 

[markojp]

Odd, cant see a link to the actual survey on my phone.

 

[martyg]

Any news of the output of this yet?

I suspect it would have most reach if it could be released in the wake of the Paltrow case if the world hasn't already moved on.

We had a group, which specializes in data segregation, pull everything together. There were over 150 variables on over 5,000 responses, so it was a bit of work. They are attempting to pull a dashboard together so that the general public will be able to play with a few variables.

It should be out in the coming weeks. Thanks for asking.

 

[martyg]

Odd, cant see a link to the actual survey on my phone.

It closed in December 2022.