Snow storm skiing

[GA49]

Hi All,

So hitting Stowe this past weekend was a lot of fun. On Tuesday, I went skiing, right when the storm hit. By the time I was on the upper trails, it was ski'd up pretty good. Random sizes of width and height snow everywhere, not a single line to be found (and I was looking). This is where experience, I think, really separates people (that and cardio fitness).

Now this is totally a technique question. I often ask about ski equipment, but this was all me having a tough time out there. I found through observation of others who are likely just better as skiing, that I apparently turn way too perpendicular to the fall line in these conditions in an effort to control speed (I know it's a bad idea even while I'm doing it, but end don't have a better solution that I can execute well when it's happening--or so it seems). I thought to myself this is the perfect time to grab a lesson, but due to other people being with me, was not able to. And this is one of the problems also, getting an instructor when these conditions exist, because they don't happen often, or not often enough to line up with my skiing schedule.

It seems to be a compounding issue. If you're not used to this kind of snow, you really focus on balance also, which of course is harder as speed picks up on these piles. And because speed plays into it, I become more speed "adverse" to ensure I maintain balance. So I end up just turning close to 75 to 90 degrees, left and right as I make my way down. This is of course completely exhausting in these conditions.

The people who seemed to be enjoying it and zipping right on down where the ones that were only turning, maybe 20-30 degrees against the fall line. It seemed when I did that i picked up too much speed (or felt I did), so I had a hard time copying them.

So with all of that, here's a couple of questions. I have some answers to them, I think:

1. What is a good way to learn to ski these kinds of conditions? (They don't come around all that often in NE, but when they do, they make it fairly miserable if you're not used to it)
2. Would a mogul clinic/class help for getting better at this? (I want to ski in these conditions (as analogous as possible) to learn in the environment. Isolated exercises are fine too and they will pay off, but it's hard to know what needs more work until you get into these conditions)
3. I am definitely WAY better at balancing on skis than i was last year and that is why I was able to get down multiple times without falling once--I would have completely ate it last year. But I'm clearly either nervous and need better technique.. Any suggestions for drills, or trails to pick in normal conditions to improve these skills?

I know just skiing more will help, and it has, tremendously, but I would like to accelerate my learning curve in these kinds of conditions because the others kinds I feel am able to progress well in. And my thinking is that if you can ski these conditions well, the others will be that much easier because they require you to bring to bear, most of the elementary techniques of skiing and exacerbate your weakness.

Thanks!
~GA

 

[Rod9301]

Make sure you are looking straight down the hill, instead of where your skis are pointing. This will solve your problem

 

[Jim Kenney]

I know what you are talking about, I have similar struggles even though I've been skiing for over 50 years. Unless it's very fresh, light and fluffy, skiing in chopped up new snow can be challenging for most of us, especially if it's heavy or has been partially refrozen overnight. Skiing in untracked snow is much easier and usually more predictable. From my non-technical perspective there is no substitute for "powder time"; that is deep, ungroomed snow in all forms. You are correct, better skiers like my son will take a more direct attack at the fall line, speed is their friend, and also fatter skis. And lots of practice. I ski Snowbird much of the winter and get my butt kicked regularly tackling chopped up deep snow. When I have fresh legs and get aggressive that usually helps.

 

[Chris V.]

Speaking just for myself, I think that a big part of the issue is psychological--seeking safety in an unfamiliar environment. 90% of this game is mental. And then the other half is physical.

 

[Jersey Skier]

Make sure you are looking straight down the hill, instead of where your skis are pointing. This will solve your problem

Lol. If only it were that simple.

 

[GA49]

Speaking just for myself, I think that a big part of the issue is psychological--seeking safety in an unfamiliar environment. 90% of this game is mental. And then the other half is physical

I'm sure this is true to a large extent.

 

[Andy Mink]

I've found this to be quite helpful in all conditions when you need to control speed.

 

[GA49]

I've found this to be quite helpful in all conditions when you need to control speed.

Interesting idea, will try this.

 

[johnnyvw]

Good video. One excercise I used to do along those lines was one foot skiing. Easy when youre foot is on the outside of the turn, much harder when that foot is on the inside. Helps you learn to keep your balance centered, and not rely on being on the outside ski. IMO

Edit: forgot to mention, do this on very easy, wide and straight slopes.

 

[Jjmd]

Another thing that can help in uneven conditions is to use more edge angle than you think, which enables the skis to slice more cleanly thru the snow, rather than be pushed around by the inconsistent piles. This, obviously, is an acquired skill set, but when you can do it, it allows one to make subtle moves with the feet to adjust speed. Surprisingly the technique is very similar to skiing the hard pack, it’s just that the feedback is different.

 

[Henry]

"Another thing that can help in uneven conditions is to use more edge angle than you think, which enables the skis to slice more cleanly thru the snow,"
And get the skis on edge earlier than usual so they slice through the snow all the way around the turn.

GA, put in lots more time on bad snow. Lumpy uneven snow. Wet heavy snow. Whatever passes for powder where you're at. Everything. You need to know that you'll survive it, maybe even have fun, no matter what. If you can get a lesson in off piste skiing, great, the worse the snow the better the lesson. You can't whip your skis around and skid them through an ungroomed turn if that's your style. You gott'a get them on edge and slice through the junk. The video above is a very good tip. Note the edge angles he's making as well as how early he's edging due to his pressure on his uphill leg to end the turn. Now, about that time our group was eating lunch when we noted that the snow outside the windows was blowing sideways, and the announcement was made that the entire mountain was now closed, and that we had to take one way down that no one of us had been on before, and it was a total white out at times, and parents were holding on to their little children to keep them from blowing away...we all got down. We all were confident enough on what we were feeling through our feet that we handled it without (too much) trouble.

 

[slowrider]

I putter around on the side of runs everytime I go out. Just see if I can.
Good advice in this thread.

 

[KingGrump]

Learn to ski bumps will help. Those cut up piles are nothing more than soft proto-bumps. A decent 3D turn will handle them with aplomb.

 

[Fuller]

I have two avenues of advice: if you're young and strong just point 'em downhill and figure it out as you go.

Well, that eliminates most of the clientele here so here's avenue two; learn to complete your turns and keep the skis on edge. A flat, skidding ski is susceptible to being pushed around but a ski on edge is your friend. As always, it boils down to fundamentals; strong tipping from the ankle to initiate the turn, good fore / aft balance, good upper body counter / angulation and eyes pointing down the fall line. Keep your feet close together and manage the pressure on the downhill ski, a wide stance with a lazy inside ski is not helpful.

This is a good way to ski no matter what the conditions. You can (and should) ski groomers this way to perfect the techniques but the groomers won't spank you for getting lazy. All this can add up to a lifetime of practice and frustration but one good run can make it all worth the effort.

edit: I should also add that finding your skis at 90 degrees to the fall line every two turns is usually a sign that you got thrown into the back seat by the 3D nature of the environment. I'll bet your inside shoulder is hugging the mountain and your jacket zipper is pointing to the tree line. But be clear - that is the effect not the cause. The cause is ultimately your lack of fore / aft balance when things get difficult.

 

[Tom K.]

I went skiing, right when the storm hit.

Try and do this more often -- as we all wish for! -- and you'll just get better at it.

Sadly, there just isn't any substitute for actual storm skiing, if you want to ski in storms.

Wait a minute......maybe that isn't sad, because I sure love the way a ski area tends to empty when it dumps all day long!

 

[Fuller]

Learn to ski bumps will help. Those cut up piles are nothing more than soft proto-bumps. A decent 3D turn will handle them with aplomb.

As always, I bow to The King in deference to his royal bumpiness. But I would point out that bumps largely dictate the turn specifics whereas the OP is still navigating more open areas and needs to avoid shopping turns more than anything. Learning that all that crap in front of you is easily negotiated with the right technique is one of the major hurdles in skiing. I relearn this lesson every time we get new snow.

Also the soft side slip for speed control in the bumps is what kills you in the cut up powder.

 

[Tony S]

Hi All,

So hitting Stowe this past weekend was a lot of fun. On Tuesday, I went skiing, right when the storm hit. By the time I was on the upper trails, it was ski'd up pretty good. Random sizes of width and height snow everywhere, not a single line to be found (and I was looking). This is where experience, I think, really separates people (that and cardio fitness).

Now this is totally a technique question. I often ask about ski equipment, but this was all me having a tough time out there. I found through observation of others who are likely just better as skiing, that I apparently turn way too perpendicular to the fall line in these conditions in an effort to control speed (I know it's a bad idea even while I'm doing it, but end don't have a better solution that I can execute well when it's happening--or so it seems). I thought to myself this is the perfect time to grab a lesson, but due to other people being with me, was not able to. And this is one of the problems also, getting an instructor when these conditions exist, because they don't happen often, or not often enough to line up with my skiing schedule.

It seems to be a compounding issue. If you're not used to this kind of snow, you really focus on balance also, which of course is harder as speed picks up on these piles. And because speed plays into it, I become more speed "adverse" to ensure I maintain balance. So I end up just turning close to 75 to 90 degrees, left and right as I make my way down. This is of course completely exhausting in these conditions.

The people who seemed to be enjoying it and zipping right on down where the ones that were only turning, maybe 20-30 degrees against the fall line. It seemed when I did that i picked up too much speed (or felt I did), so I had a hard time copying them.

So with all of that, here's a couple of questions. I have some answers to them, I think:

1. What is a good way to learn to ski these kinds of conditions? (They don't come around all that often in NE, but when they do, they make it fairly miserable if you're not used to it)
2. Would a mogul clinic/class help for getting better at this? (I want to ski in these conditions (as analogous as possible) to learn in the environment. Isolated exercises are fine too and they will pay off, but it's hard to know what needs more work until you get into these conditions)
3. I am definitely WAY better at balancing on skis than i was last year and that is why I was able to get down multiple times without falling once--I would have completely ate it last year. But I'm clearly either nervous and need better technique.. Any suggestions for drills, or trails to pick in normal conditions to improve these skills?

I know just skiing more will help, and it has, tremendously, but I would like to accelerate my learning curve in these kinds of conditions because the others kinds I feel am able to progress well in. And my thinking is that if you can ski these conditions well, the others will be that much easier because they require you to bring to bear, most of the elementary techniques of skiing and exacerbate your weakness.

Thanks!
~GA

Read this thread. Then come back. https://www.skitalk.com/threads/what-to-focus-on-next-carving-or-off-piste.30020/

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Storm days like this last Tuesday and Wednesday are what I train for everyday. Spend most of your ski time in the ungroomed natural terrain. Once you are comfortable in 3D snow the possibilities are endless. On powder days I often let out a loud "Whoo-Hoo"when passing those not having as much fun. With some practice anyone can master storm skiing.

 

[1Turn2Many]

My 2 cents: be aggressive and don’t shop for a place to turn, speed is your friend, feet close and weight more evenly distributed, be patient and use the natural rebound for assertive unweighting at transition, change edge angles and sink into the next turn. Repeat until you fall. Get up smiling and go again.

 

[1Turn2Many]

Also, if whoo-hooing guy in shorts passes you, place appropriate curse upon said individual. Displaying middle finger is also encouraged, umm, as a sign of respect.