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Special ski passes

Nathanvg

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
527
The picture of Vail last year is almost unbelievable. Why would anyone stand in that line to ski? Does this happen a lot, weekends, holiday and how about midweek?
I've skied Vail just about every year since 89 and you might be surprised that I have not seen lift lines get significantly longer. Lifts 2,4,7,11 get 10-30 minute lines most days. Powder days have a totally different traffic flow but it's not uncommon for lift 5 to have 45 minute lines at peak times (easy to avoid). Base lifts also can get long lines in the mornings. All of these lines have grown fairly little for the last 30 years. I personally have not stood in a line longer than 10 minutes in years at Vail but I do avoid certain lifts at certain times. I also ski peak times such as new years and spring break nearly every year.

That said there were some extreme lines recently. The lines that made headlines were actually Feb 2020. (pre Covid) Some pretty rare factors collided:
  1. 38" fell in 48 hours. I don't have the stats but that could be the biggest powder day at Vail in years and definitely in the top 1%
  2. Due to avalanche work, more than half the acreage was closed.
  3. The most popular lifts of those open were dead end lifts (lift only way out)
  4. It was a Saturday
My main point is that these crazy-long lines are very rare. I actually love the smaller ski areas and mostly ski Vail so much due to family preference. Many of these smaller areas not only have no lines but have much lower density on the runs which is a big plus, especially when skiing with kids.

Despite my point about Vail lines, I do see more concentration of skiers at a few bigger ski areas. For a variety of reasons, most people value large ski areas. Some of those areas recently became large. For example, Big Sky has more than doubled in size in the last 25 years. In fact, just about every major ski area today had at least one major expansion in the last 25 years. Breck added peaks 6 & 7, Beaver Creek added grouse, arrowhead & bachelor, Snowbird combined with alta and added mineral basin, Snowbasin added strawberry and John Paul, PCMR more than doubled. In general, the ski areas that expanded were already popular and became even more so with expansion.

The remaining small areas have a more narrow appeal and stiffer competition but when they align with you, they're great. You also have some large ski areas that are remote that have great appeal if you overcome travel challenges. Both of those challanges are exaserbated by the fact that ski destination often need to meet the needs of a group/family with hetrogenious needs which are more likely to be met by big ski areas. For example, "mom" needs a base village, one guy needs expert runs, another needs cruisers, one guy needs a direct flight home, etc. Such criteria quickly excludes a lot of smaller/remote areas.
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,295
Location
Boston Suburbs
I am! Flying into Santa Fe, and will have a nice 2 hour drive (weather permitting). I'm staying in the same house as last time... it's going to feel like coming home. :)
I'm staying at the same house as last time too.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Pete in Idaho

Pete in Idaho

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
1,132
Location
St. Maries - Northern Idaho
I've skied Vail just about every year since 89 and you might be surprised that I have not seen lift lines get significantly longer. Lifts 2,4,7,11 get 10-30 minute lines most days. Powder days have a totally different traffic flow but it's not uncommon for lift 5 to have 45 minute lines at peak times (easy to avoid). Base lifts also can get long lines in the mornings. All of these lines have grown fairly little for the last 30 years. I personally have not stood in a line longer than 10 minutes in years at Vail but I do avoid certain lifts at certain times. I also ski peak times such as new years and spring break nearly every year.

That said there were some extreme lines recently. The lines that made headlines were actually Feb 2020. (pre Covid) Some pretty rare factors collided:
  1. 38" fell in 48 hours. I don't have the stats but that could be the biggest powder day at Vail in years and definitely in the top 1%
  2. Due to avalanche work, more than half the acreage was closed.
  3. The most popular lifts of those open were dead end lifts (lift only way out)
  4. It was a Saturday
My main point is that these crazy-long lines are very rare. I actually love the smaller ski areas and mostly ski Vail so much due to family preference. Many of these smaller areas not only have no lines but have much lower density on the runs which is a big plus, especially when skiing with kids.

Despite my point about Vail lines, I do see more concentration of skiers at a few bigger ski areas. For a variety of reasons, most people value large ski areas. Some of those areas recently became large. For example, Big Sky has more than doubled in size in the last 25 years. In fact, just about every major ski area today had at least one major expansion in the last 25 years. Breck added peaks 6 & 7, Beaver Creek added grouse, arrowhead & bachelor, Snowbird combined with alta and added mineral basin, Snowbasin added strawberry and John Paul, PCMR more than doubled. In general, the ski areas that expanded were already popular and became even more so with expansion.

The remaining small areas have a more narrow appeal and stiffer competition but when they align with you, they're great. You also have some large ski areas that are remote that have great appeal if you overcome travel challenges. Both of those challanges are exaserbated by the fact that ski destination often need to meet the needs of a group/family with hetrogenious needs which are more likely to be met by big ski areas. For example, "mom" needs a base village, one guy needs expert runs, another needs cruisers, one guy needs a direct flight home, etc. Such criteria quickly excludes a lot of smaller/remote areas.
Thanks Nathan good explanation, having skied Tahoe for over 30yrs, it always amazed me why beginers would pay big bucks for Squaw and they could only ski a couple runs. They could have gone to Donner Ski Ranch and had more terrain for a lot less money. BUT, your explanation is valid I'm sure.
 

newboots

Learning to carve!
Skier
Joined
Dec 9, 2016
Posts
1,367
Location
Catskills
Maybe people like crowds because they made the popular (therefore “best”) choice. Or maybe it’s the party crowd, who prefer loud music and drinking in a big crowd rather than a quiet talk around the fire near the lodge.

I like a little local hill. My (senior, midweek) pass is under $300. It’s never crowded on a weekday, and the longest I’ve waited on line was 10 minutes. More likely no real wait at all. It has some challenging terrain, and plenty of green and blue. It’s close to home. It’s called Thunder Ridge in Paterson, NY.
 

SSSdave

life is short precious ...don't waste it
Skier
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Posts
2,516
Location
Silicon Valley
It is human nature that those less skilled, new to skiing, may actually enjoy being in long lines as it can be like a social event they otherwise rarely experience. Being part of an impressive colorful with hi tech materials gear and clothing enthusiast crowd waiting in line for their fun. Consider all those that are quick to stand in lines for hours waiting for music concert box office windows to open. Or those during the coming retail season that wait in line hours outside big box stores for sale openings.
 

Errand Wolfe

Ski like Stein
Skier
Joined
Nov 30, 2020
Posts
151
Location
Colorado
@Pete in Idaho , are you really asking why Utah (around Salt Lake City) and Colorado (near Denver) are busier than Idaho?

Denver Metro area population: 2.96 million
Salt Lake City Metro area population: 1.24 million people
Coeur d’Alene metro area population: 0.12 million people

And I am sure the airports (for out of region travelers) are similar. Pretty much anyone in the world can fly quickly and cheaply to Denver, most can to SLC as well, but Spokane or other airports near Northern ID are a lot harder to get to.
This, its population. Kinda deflating moving to the mountains to be close to the resort only to realize there are hundreds of thousands of people willing to leave Denver at 4:30 AM in order to beat me to the parking spot I'm only 20 minutes away from.
 

weatherman

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Posts
144
Location
Eagle, CO
This, its population. Kinda deflating moving to the mountains to be close to the resort only to realize there are hundreds of thousands of people willing to leave Denver at 4:30 AM in order to beat me to the parking spot I'm only 20 minutes away from.
I stopped trying. Now that I live locally I can't be bothered to make first chair. That's way too much effort. I leave that for the tourists and tunnel trash. I'll take the extra sleep. I've adapted to where I can park. As a local I have access to parking areas that are unavailable to the rest of the herd.
 

Itinerant skier

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Posts
466
(Also... under the IATA naming, which is what Kayak uses, Taos is "TSM"... even though the FAA code is "SKX". Odd - usually they're the same. I haven't seen that before. Another little Taos oddity. :) )
It happens sometimes. Usually when IATA has already assigned the desired code to another airport but ICAO or the FAA haven't. SKX is in Skaranx, Russia. GPI is in Guapi, Colombia.
I got a text from my office one afternoon that they were setting up a BWI-HND trip for us. I had thoughts of fresh sushi, sake and the fascinating vibe of an overnight in Tokyo. Alas, we weren't going to Tokyo Haneda airport, but to rather less interesting Henderson, NV.

OP should revisit his claim of crowd free Idaho after this coming season since IKON now has Schweitzer.
 

4aprice

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Posts
988
Location
Lake Hopatcong, NJ and Granby Co
As mentioned last year was different in so many ways. I have an Ikon but I also keep a pass at my "Home Hill" as well. Basically due to scheduling I ski locally December, most of January, and the 1st half (or till the conclusion of Presidents Day weekend) then spend the rest of the season traveling. Travels include weekends in Northern New England and vacations in Colo/Utah. Now last year as a different story. My local pass (CBK in the Pocono's) includes a First Tracks portion on weekend mornings starting at 7:30. Makes skiing there on mid season and Holiday weekends worth it and normally (pre covid) it was pretty much ski on but last year they were lining up at 7:15 to get on the lift. The hill seemed more busy most of the time last year with a lot of people just trying to get out from the lockdowns etc. Will be interesting to see how it manifests this year.

As for my Ikon, its fits our skiing needs just about perfectly. Basically we hit 4 New England resorts (Loon, Kiilington. Sugarbush & Stratton) for a weekend each. then according to the conditions add 2 more weekends at the end of the season where we think the snow is best. Our son lives in Colorado so we usually take 2 week + trips one to Aspen and one a combo of Colorado somewhere and Cottonwood Heights Utah where we have connections to stay. I have to say we have seen crowds during the mid season at some of the New England resorts but I'm not sure it is anymore crowded with the Ikon then it was before it. It was always busy between Christmas and Presidents Day. Most of the time I use my Ikon is after that and crowds become a none issue as the last 8-6 weeks of the season (till mid/late April for me) become the land of the hardcore.
 
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