Specialized Layoffs

[Tom K.]

The key here being “MTB training loop” This is not what I am talking about

Please elaborate?

Not quite following.

For me, not only are the training loops (and race courses) faster, but my post-ride fatigue is far less with the squishy bikes.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Please elaborate?

Not quite following.

For me, not only are the training loops (and race courses) faster, but my post-ride fatigue is far less with the squishy bikes.

There is a climb close to where I live. 14 kms with app 900 m total ascend. I can do it on my full sus MTB or on my road bike. On the Giant TCR it takes me about an hour. On the Scott Spark RC it takes me about 20 mins more even with fork locked.
The watts just disappear through the suspension. And I HATE being slow.

 

[Tom K.]

There is a climb close to where I live. 14 kms with app 900 m total ascend. I can do it on my full sus MTB or on my road bike. On the Giant TCR it takes me about an hour. On the Scott Spark RC it takes me about 20 mins more even with fork locked.
The watts just disappear through the suspension. And I HATE being slow.

Comparing times between a full-on road bike and an FS mtb on a paved climb?!

That's a pretty unfair comparison. I would say the FS component of your slower times is far overshadowed by overall weight, rotating weight, rolling resistance, tire size and pressure, body position...ad infinitum.

I'll stand by my claim that in real mtb terrain, the hard tail is always slower than a good short travel FS bike. In the Scott world, there's a reason that Nino races a Spark, not their hardtail -- though HE could probably slaughter everybody on either on the right day.

 

[cantunamunch]

the body position part is what I was hoping we'd get into in the cross / endurance/ gr thread but all yous are parts guys

 

[bitflogger]

Hmm..... Is the new Trek hire I met last week their last for a while? It would not surprise me if sports gear and other layoffs are in part from some industries just being better at business. Regardless, my best wishes to anyone impacted by layoffs.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Comparing times between a full-on road bike and an FS mtb on a paved climb?!

I know. But that's what I meant when I said I do not like suspension. Means I do not particularly like the very idea of MTB. I use mine only when absolutely necessary and when the route is totally impossible to do even on a gravel bike.

BTW weight is not that big of a factor as I doubt my MTB weighs more than 3 kilos more than my road bike. It is the softness that kills me. Speed is addictive and when you get used to moving at 30-35 km/h, the 20 on the MTB feels laughably slow.
Road cycling is a drug.

 

[Tom K.]

the body position part is what I was hoping we'd get into in the cross / endurance/ gr thread but all yous are parts guys

Not totally!

W/R/T body position I've noted a few things:

1. I am far more confident descending rough gravel downhills on my light hardtail with sus fork than I am on my gravel bike. Partly sus fork, but mostly I don't feel like I'm leading with my beak, on the edge of doom.

2. When I was still training seriously for mtb endurance races, I did most of my road work on my hardtail (with slicks) because it gave me a body position nearly identical to my FS race bike. I felt this gained me more than doing the road work on a real road bike (though the road bike would have been far more enjoyable on the pavement).

I know. But that's what I meant when I said I do not like suspension. Means I do not particularly like the very idea of MTB. I use mine only when absolutely necessary and when the route is totally impossible to do even on a gravel bike.

Corners, baby, corners! For me, the biggest component of mtb joy is railing corners in the dirt. Could be a remnant of my motocross youth.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Corners, baby, corners! For me, the biggest component of mtb joy is railing corners in the dirt. Could be a remnant of my motocross youth.

Weeellll, I mean, as we are on a ski forum I believe we got those cornering Gs covered.

 

[scott43]

So I was not terribly uncomfortable riding fairly deep gravel on my 990 wheelbase road bike with 25c tires. However . Doesn't mean there aren't better ways.. knowing I'd likely be doing majority pavement, I don't mind sticking closer to 1000mm wheelbase rather than 1040 or similar. My stack is decently low for an aging fellow, but yeah, aero is not a huge consideration so slightly higher is ok and you can always drop with spacers and negative drop stem then wait for my spine to lock up....

 

[Tom K.]

knowing I'd likely be doing majority pavement, I don't mind sticking closer to 1000mm wheelbase rather than 1040 or similar.

Being able to compare my Emonda (pure race) to Checkpoint (gravel) I'd agree that WB matters.

I'd submit that HTA may be just as important.

 

[scott43]

Being able to compare my Emonda (pure race) to Checkpoint (gravel) I'd agree that WB matters.

I'd submit that HTA may be just as important.

So how different on pavement is the check vs the emonda?

 

[cantunamunch]

do any of you calculate wheel flop on your comparo sheets?

 

[cantunamunch]

Weeellll, I mean, as we are on a ski forum I believe we got those cornering Gs covered.

I am now imagining you on a fully rigid Turner or Victoire ... with Berd spokes

 

[scott43]

do any of you calculate wheel flop on your comparo sheets?

No and I should because that feeling suxx...

 

[Tony Storaro]

I am now imagining you on a fully rigid Turner or Victoire ... with Berd spokes

I wouldn't mind one bit. I like the idea of Ti bike very much and for sure will buy one sometime in the future.
As for steel my heart is already taken by the beautiful masterpieces of Dario. Pegoretti that is.
You just cannot imagine how much I want a disk brakes Round in Ciavette.

 

[Tom K.]

So how different on pavement is the check vs the emonda?

HUGE. On big, mountainous downhills, the Emonda requires your full attention, while the Check is a bit dull.

I'm hoping my new Domane splits the difference. At this point in life, I want a bike that swoops through the corners, not one that "snaps".

Mama Bear FTW!

 

[scott43]

HUGE. On big, mountainous downhills, the Emonda requires your full attention, while the Check is a bit dull.

I'm hoping my new Domane splits the difference. At this point in life, I want a bike that swoops through the corners, not one that "snaps".

Mama Bear FTW!

Is your new Domane the same geo as the 2023 Al5? At this point it's my front runner..

 

[Tom K.]

Is your new Domane the same geo as the 2023 Al5? At this point it's my front runner..

Darn close with the Al having a bit shorter HT and ETT, and a bit more trail.

Al 5 geo: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...omane-al-5-disc/p/33086/?colorCode=grey_black

SL7 geo: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...mane-sl-7-etap-gen-4/p/36155/?colorCode=white

Happy hunting!

 

[crosscountry]

One big hit for me is the inability to run wider tires with rim brakes. So when I got to that stage, it's a big upgrade...

Wait a couple more years, there will be plenty of second hand disc 700C wheels. That’s when I’ll be buying the frame.

(I thought I was going to buy a full bike this summer. But didn’t find anything I like in terms of price vs function)

 

[cantunamunch]

I wouldn't mind one bit. I like the idea of Ti bike very much and for sure will buy one sometime in the future.
As for steel my heart is already taken by the beautiful masterpieces of Dario. Pegoretti that is.
You just cannot imagine how much I want a disk brakes Round in Ciavette.

It's not about the Ti. It's about having front center>>700 mm without a super slack HTA.

Get the wheel in front of your beak without flop, ya know?