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Speed skis for Masters racing

DocGKR

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As a preface, which I have stated previously, when I was in school skiing, there was no Super-G, just the “classic three events”, of which I was best at DH, followed by GS, and never stellar at SL. Much like Phil Mahre declared in that era, when SG was introduced after I stopped racing, I mistakenly felt it was a fad that didn’t make any sense. Yet as the years rolled past, it actually become my favorite World Cup event to watch. Unlike any other classic skiing discipline, SG allows both tech skiers (GS) and speed skiers (DH) a common ground where both groups have a chance of excelling. It is fun watching WC skiers from both tech and speed vying together to try and dominate SG. I also like the fact there is only 1 run and no training days—makes things more exciting. From a development standpoint, SG allows GS skiers to gain experience going faster while helping DH skiers work on turning skills. SG is a great stepping stone for eventually moving to full-on DH, while also allowing folks who don’t wish to step-up to a riskier DH to at least enjoy a bit of speed and perhaps learn from the experience. Finally, very few venues in North America are set-up for Junior and Masters DH training and racing, while quite a few more can support SG.

As a new Masters racer, speed skiing has not been as common or as easy to train for as SL and GS. Speed skis are also a rarer commodity to acquire. Now that I have started Masters racing, SG has rapidly become my favorite event to ski. Below is what I have discovered about Masters speed skis so far.

Note that all of these skis had a 1/3 tune by Start Haus or Race Place; hand flex is simply in comparison to the other skis listed here. The below subjective comments are based on and biased by my age, condition, experience, skiing style, location, etc…



Speed Skis.JPG


Atomic Redster SG FIS w/Revoshok 207cm/40m (stiff flex): Given how much I love the Atomic 188/30m GS ski, I had high hopes for these SG skis. While powerful, fast, and very stable at speed, I had a hard time initially getting comfortable on them, with more difficult turn initiation than the Blizzard and Rossi. Fortunately, the X19 VAR bindings allow easy fore-aft adjustment; with the bindings moved 2 clicks forward, the skis became much easier to carve. However, I still have not fully adapted with them--finding my turns not as smooth as on the other SG skis, despite a bit higher top speed capability with the Atomics.

Blizzard SG FIS 205cm/40m (medium flex): These were the first SG skis I ever tried, using them last season in training to try to regain my speed skills. They offer a firm ride, with fairly easy turn initiation and good stability at speed.

 They remain my second favorite SG ski.

Rossignol SG FIS GS 209cm/40m (soft flex): Starting with the first turn, these were very intuitive for me, requiring no time to get used to. They smoothly and effortlessly arc from turn to turn, much like the Dynastar/Rossi 193/30m GS ski. Stability at speed is good, but not quite as solid as the Atomics or Blizzards; however, the increased “turnability” is a reasonable compromise for my skill set. At this stage in my Masters skiing, these are my favorite SG skis and have served me well this year, allowing my to greatly improve my speed skills.



Head DH Worldcup Rebels 210cm/50m (stiff flex): These are like a turbo diesel semi-truck unperturbedly running over anything in their path—ripples, ruts, and ice are shrugged off, even at eye popping speeds. The faster these go, the smoother and more responsive they get. Nonetheless, I find these skis need to be forcefully loaded in order to get them to turn well, as they want to keep going straight when given more subtle input. I am thinking about remounting the bindings forward a couple of inches to see if that changes the turn initiation without sacrificing the stability at speed. Much like the Head GS skis I have run, these are a bit numb, offering less feedback then other speed skis I have used--which may not be a bad thing at DH speeds. As I am still undecided on these, I may also try a pair of Rossi 218/50m or Nordica 212/50m DH skis next year if the opportunity arises.
 
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DocGKR

DocGKR

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So, after not skiing a speed event in four decades, this month I finally got a chance to compete (not just train) in SG for the first time in my life. In my first Masters SG race I was a bit hesitant, but had a lot of fun. In the second SG race of my life at Northstar yesterday, I ran a tighter line, held my tuck longer, and while I didn’t win, it turns out I managed to take 2nd place in my age group. The snow surface was outstanding, and the course was superb, set around 42m by Mark Mirviss, the Palisades Tahoe Head Masters Coach, with help from ScotsSkier (who skied great himself!).

GKR 2nd.JPG


GKR Northstar SG.JPG


Northstar SG course.JPG


NorthStar SG start.jpg
 
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Philpug

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Are you going to Sun Valley in two weeks?
 
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DocGKR

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Not going to make Sun Valley, as we are short staffed at work right now. Hopefully I will be able to make the Mammoth speed races next month.

And yes, the Super-G was a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious totally fun blast!
 

bbbradley

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That is a great collection of lumber! I envy your ski evaluation stable. I hopped onto 207/40m this year for the Masters Easterns, the skis were fun and not nearly as hard to ski as the specs would lead me to believe.

Nice skiing! :golfclap::golfclap::golfclap::golfclap::golfclap:
 

Mike Thomas

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"Unlike any other classic skiing discipline, SG allows both tech skiers (GS) and speed skiers (DH) a common ground where both groups have a chance of excelling."

Let's be honest, SG was developed to give everyone else a chance against this guy-
220px-Ingemar_Stenmark_(1979).jpg
 

ScotsSkier

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Thanks @DocGKR. Good skiing, and congrats on on being over 5 seconds faster on your second run! (same course for both races)

Also great performances from all our Palisades Tahoe Masters athletes, things are really clicking this year as, while snow conditions have not been stellar for free skiing, they have been pretty darn good for training Shameless plug for our palisades Tahoe Masters program!ogsmileogsmile

And good review on the different speed skis. Highlights how there can be big differences in speed skis in how they feel for different people (I hated my 209/40 Rossis, I had 2 pairs and sold them after 2 runs!) The Augment 205/40 SG is stellar though, more like how you describe the Blizzard except smoother. With the Atomic SG, when i was on the 205/40 it was a very good ski. When they went to the 210/40 as a replacement it was totally different, sluggish and much harder work to turn, felt more like e DH ski. (And a few of my athletes who were on Atomic found the same thing) Highlights how important overall flex is rather than simply radius.
 
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DocGKR

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I will echo ScotsSkier's comments--the Palisades Tahoe Masters program is superb! A lot of folks don't realize there are two options--one with a more competitive gate training emphasis and another for more technical and free skiing improvement. Some folks just do one option, while others do a bit of both. If you want to improve your skiing, whether racing or just freesking, this is an AMAZING resource--as each person get extensive coaching and support during each day of skiing.
 

Paul Lutes

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So .... do the consider free heelers? (50/50, serious/not serious).
Just picked up a pair of Augment GS Pros, so along way aways from a SG ski, but I've stumbled on the joys of SLs with FIS guts, and ..... it's never too late?
 

ScotsSkier

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I will echo ScotsSkier's comments--the Palisades Tahoe Masters program is superb! A lot of folks don't realize there are two options--one with a more competitive gate training emphasis and another for more technical and free skiing improvement. Some folks just do one option, while others do a bit of both. If you want to improve your skiing, whether racing or just freesking, this is an AMAZING resource--as each person get extensive coaching and support during each day of skiing.

Plus the huge benefit of lift line priority when you are with a coach......ogsmile
 
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DocGKR

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No clue about during a race, but at a training session last year velocity was measured and the max speed I hit on the Blizzards was 62 mph.
 

bbbradley

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What kind of speeds are you hitting in a Masters SG race?

depends on the set and the hill (and the age class!) . Typically in the 40-60 range at the higher end

No clue about during a race, but at a training session last year velocity was measured and the max speed I hit on the Blizzards was 62 mph.
For the Masters Easterns at West Mtn, my watch said 55MPH was top speed during the SG. West is a small/medium size hill and we used the *whole* hill for the SG.
 
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DocGKR

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Update: In consultation with representatives from Head and with input from the excellent folks at Start Haus in Truckee, it was determined that plates on my 210/50m DH skis were incorrectly mounted. They needed to be moved forward a mere 3 inches/7.62cm.

After that was accomplished, the skis became dramatically easier to turn, while still offering excellent stability at speed.
 

bbbradley

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Update: In consultation with representatives from Head and with input from the excellent folks at Start Haus in Truckee, it was determined that plates on my 210/50m DH skis were incorrectly mounted. They needed to be moved forward a mere 3 inches/7.62cm.

After that was accomplished, the skis became dramatically easier to turn, while still offering excellent stability at speed.
1) Who F-ed up that mount in the 1st place????? 3" is almost as bad as mounting them facing the wrong direction. :D
2) Sounds similar to the Fischer GS skis I picked up, except the heel plates are mounted ~1" unevenly, which buggered the process as the plate mounting bots interfere with one of the heel pieces.
 

François Pugh

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Update: In consultation with representatives from Head and with input from the excellent folks at Start Haus in Truckee, it was determined that plates on my 210/50m DH skis were incorrectly mounted. They needed to be moved forward a mere 3 inches/7.62cm.

After that was accomplished, the skis became dramatically easier to turn, while still offering excellent stability at speed.
I get that you moved the plate forward by 3", moving the stiffened part of the ski forward by that amount. Did your boot position relative to the ski tip change too, or did you move the mounting point on the plate back to compensate?
 

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