Speeding skier charged with manslaughter

[Andy Mink]

I would hope anyone who spends any time on the hill can recognize beginner skiers. They're the ones that are locked up, full body turning, and look like they're scared. That's not to make fun but to be able to recognize someone who is paying way more attention to not falling than to what's going on around them. I give them a wide berth because A) if they don't know where they're going, I sure don't and B) I don't want to startle or scare them into making a reactionary move they can't control. If that means slowing to a crawl, so be it. I don't get people bombing down through a moving slalom course no matter how good a skier they are.

 

[Bozzenhagen]

If someone cannot do high edge angle turns on firm snow at speed with a reasonable margin of error; maybe it's sort of bumpy, very slick patch, water injected course, etc....
Then they really have no business doing at any sort of "speed". This weeds out probably 90%+ of the population on the slopes. Probably more.

Most people speeding around couldn't even be competitive in a NASTAR course with non water-injected snow.

 

[fatbob]

I like to ski at a brisk pace. Fast to some, not so fast to others. However, I always give downhill skiers a wide berth. If I see kids, I give a really wide berth, and wave at instructor to let him know I saw them. I also don't charge over blind rises, and will do a speed check as you never know who or what is on the other side. A little bit of common sense could have prevented this tragedy!

Rick G

Sorry not picking on you - I agree common sense and adequate skills/judgement would prevent almost all collisions.

But jerries be jerries, ego be ego and some associate skiing fun with going fast on public slopes. I can't see a way in which the root behaviour that probably caused this tragedy can be avoided. This happened Saturday. It took as long as Tuesday before the Marvel guy was killed in a nearby resort. Lessons are not learned.

 

[Nobody]

My major fear, as already stated, is to become an "active actor" into one of such tragedies...I pray that it will never, ever happen.
But in order to do that, one must actively and at all times be "en garde", check the speed as soon as a kid/kids is in sight and there is no possibility to give him the widest of the wide berths, or whenever there is a "dead view" spot and there is no way to know what is beyond that.
Am I succeeding in doing that? So far so good. I hope it will also continue to be so, but I hope it is a matter of doing the right thing and not out of sheer luck, because, sooner or later, luck runs out...

 

[rickg]

Sorry not picking on you - I agree common sense and adequate skills/judgement would prevent almost all collisions.

But jerries be jerries, ego be ego and some associate skiing fun with going fast on public slopes. I can't see a way in which the root behaviour that probably caused this tragedy can be avoided. This happened Saturday. It took as long as Tuesday before the Marvel guy was killed in a nearby resort. Lessons are not learned.

Not picking on me at all. These incidents always bring a tear to my eye. Skiing is my number 1 passion. I learned in the 70's taking group lessons. I remember the instructors instilling the skiers code in us. Later I joined the Seven Springs Safety Rangers to help control the madness.

Too many skiers and boarders are forgoing lessons and learning from friends or trial and error. No education about safety or skiers responsibility code. So perhaps some sort of skiers license is needed to access anything more than a beginners hill. Not sure if it would work, but better than having the resorts shut down due to litigation.

Rick G

 

[James]

These were not locked up beginners. You would never take such people on that trail and esp not kids. It’s a lot of time skiing, so they have to be very comfortable turning and not falling all the time.

The group the girl was in was moving and below a roll. It’s likely the guy couldn’t see her till too it was too late. We don’t know, it was said he tried to avoid her but couldn’t.
If that’s the case, things like “giving a wide berth” are meaningless.

After last MLK weekend, the state of things is pretty depressing in the US. At times sudden descending hordes like the subway just got out, hell bent on going downhill. Why they all go at once is beyond me, but it’s a road driving mentality I guess, get there asap. Exercise their “right” to use the mountain they paid for.

The fact that more people aren’t hurt is luck and due to most are going the same direction and barely go across the fall line in a turn. I had one kid get hit from one of these hordes.

A lot of these people doing this have to have kids. Seems to make no difference.

 

[skibum4ever]

Some years ago I had a friend who liked to race on every run. But he would only do it on a groomed black slope with no one below him, and no possibility of someone skiing in from another trail.

 

[slowrider]

One of the main reasons I prefer 12-15 M tr skis is for maneuverability and slower speeds on groomers where other riders are incountered.

 

[Seldomski]

The child of English nationality was hit when she was about ten meters below a slight bump.

Not sure what to read into this exactly. Were the children obscured visually from above by a small roller?

Note that if you have ever been surprised by a cat track, roller, bump in terrain, or simply any obstacle ahead of you while skiing, you were SKIING TOO FAST FOR YOUR ABILITY. I see people guilty of this all the time while skiing - wiping out when they get to a cat track, getting launched off of rollers or moguls they didn't see until it was too late. Luckily it almost always leads to a crash for just the one person. What makes it harder to identify is people learn where that obstacle is for the next time they ski the run, but they are still likely skiing it too fast - insert some other unexpected thing on the run and they are surprised again and may crash.

Maybe resorts should run campaigns to fish for these people. Place a few 3' tall cones beyond blind rollers around the mountain. If you hit the cone, you get your pass pulled. Move the cone around throughout the day.

 

[Tony Storaro]

It needs to be mentioned here that some instructors are total a$$holes and irresponsible AF.
Picture this from today: top station of a chair lift, from that point down there there are only three runs-ALL of them steep reds. And I mean steep.
And just below the station-a ski school instructor leading down a file of 5 kids not more than 4 years old.
And this point is a Jerryland, all kind of wannabes flying around. Why? WTF man?

This is why I am not sure I will entrust any ski school with my kid without me being present at all times.

BTW I just could not stop thinking about this story and today deliberately decided I will ski as slow as possible. Just see how slow I can go. Concentrate on details-early edge, rounded turns etc. And yeah, it is fun. Different fun but fun.
I am thinking of pulling out my shortest turning ski next week and keeping at it for a while, cant bear the thought I can be the cause for something like this, although I have never ever crashed into someone.

 

[KingGrump]

It needs to be mentioned here that some instructors are total a$$holes and irresponsible AF.
Picture this from today: top station of a chair lift, from that point down there there are only three runs-ALL of them steep reds. And I mean steep.
And just below the station-a ski school instructor leading down a file of 5 kids not more than 4 years old.
And this point is a Jerryland, all kind of wannabes flying around. Why? WTF man?

This is why I am not sure I will entrust any ski school with my kid without me being present at all times.

BTW I just could not stop thinking about this story and today deliberately decided I will ski as slow as possible. Just see how slow I can go. Concentrate on details-early edge, rounded turns etc. And yeah, it is fun. Different fun but fun.
I am thinking of pulling out my shortest turning ski next week and keeping at it for a while, cant bear the thought I can be the cause for something like this, although I have never ever crashed into someone.

Definitely check out the ski school and especially the specific instructor that will be with your kid. A good ski school will definitely take steps to mitigate the high speed scuds. I have seen speed control fencing with multiple off sets.

Anyway, ski school will generally provide a better learning environment than parent/child pairing.

Slow skiing is good for one's technical development. I was skiing with a good skier yesterday. I was working with her on her steep and bump techniques. She was doing fine until clicked up her speed. I commented that her skiing fell apart with speed. She mumbled something out she like skiing fast. My comment was "Work on the slowness first until it is fully ingrained. Speed will come. And when it comes, it will feel slow still."

Enjoy the slow.

 

[tch]

My major fear, as already stated, is to become an "active actor" into one of such tragedies...I pray that it will never, ever happen.
But in order to do that, one must actively and at all times be "en garde", check the speed as soon as a kid/kids is in sight and there is no possibility to give him the widest of the wide berths, or whenever there is a "dead view" spot and there is no way to know what is beyond that.
Am I succeeding in doing that? So far so good. I hope it will also continue to be so, but I hope it is a matter of doing the right thing and not out of sheer luck, because, sooner or later, luck runs out...

Things do happen.
Just yesterday, I was following a less-skilled skier down a narrow trail. She was doing a nice job of turning left, then right, then left...but slower than me by a fairly big margin. I downshifted and waited until she was going to turn left and then moved to pass her on her right -- behind her.
However... she heard me coming and after turning left, she stopped and slid backwards towards the edge of the trail in order to "give me room". Right into my chosen path.

I managed to drop off the groom and missed her tails by a foot or so, but I scared her -- and me.
So it was just a reminder: I thought I was being responsible and respectful, but I ended up in a potentially bad situation.
Stuff happens.

 

[scott43]

Nobody is perfect or omnipotent. My kid asks me when I'm driving, can't you go faster?!? I'm thinking to myself, you have no idea. but i say, no, we don't want to hurt ourselves or anyone else.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Definitely check out the ski school and especially the specific instructor that will be with your kid. A good ski school will definitely take steps to mitigate the high speed scuds. I have seen speed control fencing with multiple off sets.

Anyway, ski school will generally provide a better learning environment than parent/child pairing.

Slow skiing is good for one's technical development. I was skiing with a good skier yesterday. I was working with her on her steep and bump techniques. She was doing fine until clicked up her speed. I commented that her skiing fell apart with speed. She mumbled something out she like skiing fast. My comment was "Work on the slowness first until it is fully ingrained. Speed will come. And when it comes, it will feel slow still."

Enjoy the slow.

Yeah. All true.

 

[crgildart]

Blue terrain where the highest number of people skiing a little or a lot beyond their abilities are found.. It also tends to be the most crowded terrain.. especially in the runouts where it merges with other trails including beginner trails.

 

[jt10000]

Blue terrain where the highest number of people skiing a little or a lot beyond their abilities are found.. It also tends to be the most crowded terrain.. especially in the runouts where it merges with other trails including beginner trails.

you mean blue in the US sense (intermediate)?

 

[ihocky2]

When time comes to teach my baby girl how to ski, I am thinking of doing exactly this-will ski behind them at all times. IF I decide to trust a school. Which I may or may not.
Right behind them.

Damn, this story is freaking me out so much.

I have been teaching my 9 year old son for a few years. Beginning of last year towards the end of the day a snowboarder is flying down a green run that was marked as a SLOW trail at the top, last second I hear "Watch Out" in time to see my son get crashed into pretty hard. I unloaded on the guy. His excuse was that he was just learning, which set me off even further. The only reasons I didn't lay a hand on the guy is I didn't want to get arrested that night and I had to look after my son. I have no idea how he came out of it unscathed.

I was skiing behind him but my turns were out of sequence with his and I didn't have time to react. Since then I work hard to keep me between him and anyone else uphill. I may not throw a hip check like I could 15 years ago, but I can still lay someone out to protect my kids. I may not take the hit well, but I will better than my son can.

I skied behind my kids as a blocker for a couple years until they were good to ski solo with friends. Does little if the person who blasts us from behind is going 50 though.. I suppose some cushion but still a horrific crash.

I would rather take that hit than have my kids take it. I have no problem going low if needed and taking out someones knees if I have to.

 

[clong83]

Ski Santa Fe has the beginner area roped off from the blue runs upstream from it. You can still get onto it to get to the bottom if you want, but you have to go around a flat section and around some trees to get back out onto the beginner run. Even if you are going 40mph, by the time you are onto the beginner run, you are going no more than 15 or so unless you are really working hard to conserve every bit of speed and turning high up on your edges. It also helps that you can’t regain much speed on their beginner hill as it isn’t very steep.

I think entry gates or something of the like would be feasible for a lot of areas to separate the beginner area. And maybe even to enter slow zones where many trails intersect. Put in a big fence and a couple of bottleneck entry points where you have to all but stop to get through. I‘d be okay with that.

I had one near miss in my younger days. With a kid, no less. It was on a mogul run that I was trying to zipperline and this kid was picking his way down mogul by mogul when he suddenly cut out from the fall line and traversed into my chosen line. Collision was very narrowly avoided and involved me crashing hard off to the side. It scared the bejeezus out of me because I thought I was being careful and giving enough space. Lesson learned, and now I give as much space as I think I need, and pretty much double it. If I can’t do that without slowing down because it is too narrow or there are too many skiers, then I slow down.

 

[crgildart]

I would rather take that hit than have my kids take it. I have no problem going low if needed and taking out someones knees if I have to.

If you're standing upslope from your kids blocking for them and someone is barreling towards you at 50 I don't think going low and taking their lower legs out protects your kids that well. They'll just somersault/rag doll over you and still blast your kids. You gotta take the hit up high to send them right or left..

 

[scott43]

Ski Santa Fe has the beginner area roped off from the blue runs upstream from it. You can still get onto it to get to the bottom if you want, but you have to go around a flat section and around some trees to get back out onto the beginner run. Even if you are going 40mph, by the time you are onto the beginner run, you are going no more than 15 or so unless you are really working hard to conserve every bit of speed and turning high up on your edges. It also helps that you can’t regain much speed on their beginner hill as it isn’t very steep.

I think entry gates or something of the like would be feasible for a lot of areas to separate the beginner area. And maybe even to enter slow zones where many trails intersect. Put in a big fence and a couple of bottleneck entry points where you have to all but stop to get through. I‘d be okay with that.

I had one near miss in my younger days. With a kid, no less. It was on a mogul run that I was trying to zipperline and this kid was picking his way down mogul by mogul when he suddenly cut out from the fall line and traversed into my chosen line. Collision was very narrowly avoided and involved me crashing hard off to the side. It scared the bejeezus out of me because I thought I was being careful and giving enough space. Lesson learned, and now I give as much space as I think I need, and pretty much double it. If I can’t do that without slowing down because it is too narrow or there are too many skiers, then I slow down.

There are places with great beginner areas that are isolated from the rest of the hill. Whiteface is a good example. Nakiska out west. Lake Louise is kinda one little blip and then you're on the main hill and half the mountain funnels down into the slow area.