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Speeding skier charged with manslaughter

scott43

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If you're standing upslope from your kids blocking for them and someone is barreling towards you at 50 I don't think going low and taking their lower legs out protects your kids that well. They'll just somersault/rag doll over you and still blast your kids. You gotta take the hit up high to send them right or left..
Meh..I've hit guys up high in hockey and their feet flip up and they still travel a fair ways. Shoulder to shoulder, CofM hit. But you're taking half the hit then! :)
 

Sibhusky

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There's plenty of confusion between European trail ratings and US in this thread.
=======

Piste ratings

Pistes are also graded for difficulty. Sadly, this doesn't work as well for the visitor or potential visitor as you might expect as there are different grading systems.

In Europe, the basic grading goes from blue (easy) through red to black (difficult). France adds green, effectively splitting the blue category into green (really easy, in theory) and blue (not quite so easy). In North America, the grading goes from green through blue to black, with no red. America uses shaped symbols, too (circles, squares and diamonds). At the top of the scale are double black diamonds, or even occasionally triple black diamonds which are the most difficult.

These two scales are difficult to relate, even in theory. American single black diamond runs, in particular, tend to embrace runs that might be graded red or black in Europe. American double diamonds start with runs that would be genuine blacks in Europe, but go on to include much steeper runs than you will find in any European piste network.
 

fatbob

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I think some of this blocking stuff is the stuff of fantasies - if you are going to shield you have to do it really well as in impossible to get between you and the kid. Alternately consider you might be creating a greater risk as the jerry goes round the big thing he can see and straight into the little thing he hadn't seen.

The problem with the sort of blue slopes you are wanting to progress your kids on is that's exactly where self taught jerry is getting out of control ( through need for speed or just accident himself). Teach kids on double diamond and they'll likely be safe. Sobbing for another reason maybe but safe.
 

crgildart

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There's plenty of confusion between European trail ratings and US in this thread.
=======

Piste ratings

Pistes are also graded for difficulty. Sadly, this doesn't work as well for the visitor or potential visitor as you might expect as there are different grading systems.

In Europe, the basic grading goes from blue (easy) through red to black (difficult). France adds green, effectively splitting the blue category into green (really easy, in theory) and blue (not quite so easy). In North America, the grading goes from green through blue to black, with no red. America uses shaped symbols, too (circles, squares and diamonds). At the top of the scale are double black diamonds, or even occasionally triple black diamonds which are the most difficult.

These two scales are difficult to relate, even in theory. American single black diamond runs, in particular, tend to embrace runs that might be graded red or black in Europe. American double diamonds start with runs that would be genuine blacks in Europe, but go on to include much steeper runs than you will find in any European piste network.
End of the day it was a BEGINNER slope. Guessing that there may have been a steeper section above or the dude bombed in a tuck for a long way to get going that fast there..
 

crgildart

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I think some of this blocking stuff is the stuff of fantasies - if you are going to shield you have to do it really well as in impossible to get between you and the kid. Alternately consider you might be creating a greater risk as the jerry goes round the big thing he can see and straight into the little thing he hadn't seen.

The problem with the sort of blue slopes you are wanting to progress your kids on is that's exactly where self taught jerry is getting out of control ( through need for speed or just accident himself). Teach kids on double diamond and they'll likely be safe. Sobbing for another reason maybe but safe.
I agree.. adult traveling 50mph is taking everyone out..
 

Tony Storaro

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There's plenty of confusion between European trail ratings and US in this thread.
=======

Piste ratings

Pistes are also graded for difficulty. Sadly, this doesn't work as well for the visitor or potential visitor as you might expect as there are different grading systems.

In Europe, the basic grading goes from blue (easy) through red to black (difficult). France adds green, effectively splitting the blue category into green (really easy, in theory) and blue (not quite so easy). In North America, the grading goes from green through blue to black, with no red. America uses shaped symbols, too (circles, squares and diamonds). At the top of the scale are double black diamonds, or even occasionally triple black diamonds which are the most difficult.

These two scales are difficult to relate, even in theory. American single black diamond runs, in particular, tend to embrace runs that might be graded red or black in Europe. American double diamonds start with runs that would be genuine blacks in Europe, but go on to include much steeper runs than you will find in any European piste network.

Yes, there are greens in some countries.

To make things even more confusing, some blues are more reds and vice versa.
 

fatbob

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I've never actual considered Euro and US blues to be that different. Regardless they aren't beginner/nursery slopes. France does have greens so .......
 

Sibhusky

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Found a better chart.
Screenshot_20220120-134112.png
 

crgildart

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Check out this red diamond I was skiing down the street from my house a few years ago. I didn't think it was difficult at all..

1642711759192.png


OK enough chatter. It was tragic and this angel is gone. We definitely need to try harder to keep the Jerrys off the snow. If you can't shut it down quickly, you're skiing too fast to be sharing the slopes with other people..
 

James

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End of the day it was a BEGINNER slope. Guessing that there may have been a steeper section above or the dude bombed in a tuck for a long way to get going that fast there..
It was not a slope labelled and intended only for beginners. There’s a reason we’ve gotten away from ability ratings to trails. Black Diamond is not “Expert” any more. So just because you go down it doesn’t make you an expert.
Whether those ability ratings @Sibhusky posted for France are accurate, i.e. up to date, I don’t know.


Would it really matter if it was a red slope?

People are also deluded in this “shut down thing”. If you can’t see what’s over the knoll, it doesn’t matter if you can “shut down” quickly.
 

crgildart

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People are also deluded in this “shut down thing”. If you can’t see what’s over the knoll, it doesn’t matter if you can “shut down” quickly.
If you're skiing beyond your line of sight be it over a roller or around a corner you're beyond your ability to shut it down quickly enough to avoid potential obstacles/people.

I's say what level of trail it was matters in terms of how long it takes to get up to 50 mph.. I don't think I can bet up to legit 50 on a decent blue or easy back without tucking some.. Standing up my terminal velocity is probably below 40..

If they had to work super hard to get going that fast, the level of culpability goes up too. If it was legit steep so just missing a coupe turns has them going that fast it's more an issue that they were over terrained and panicking instead of intentionally being reckless.
 

Yo Momma

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THIS.....

This is a sensitive subject for me. I still have PTSD from being violently taken out on east falls at Killington 4 years ago. I'll never forget hearing him shout watch out from behind me before he mowed me down. He took off too so never even saw him afterwards. I'll be forever grateful I wasn't physically hurt.

I see so many people FLYING at the mountains. I used to be self conscious about not being speedy but my supervisor at Magic often says speed alone doesn't equal skill and speed can also cover up poor technique.

Whenever I hear of this stuff happening my heart breaks. This one is an especially tough one since it happened on the bunny hill... why, why, why
Totally agree. I live up here and I NEVER ski KMart. Not that it's the only area where a crash can happen but.... :huh: My bud went years ago after I warned him. He sat in one of the parking lots to eat in his car facing the trails before heading on to the slopes for a half day. While sitting there, he saw 5 different crashes. All were people crashing into each other. One crash required a ski patrol sled. He said he was amazed at the number of out of control skiers going much too fast for the icy conditions. He ate, thought about what I had told him about KMart, started his car and left!

The thing I'm noticing more and more w/ the crowds, is the lack of understanding of distance and speed, even by "experienced" skiers and LOTS of practicing racers and teams w/ a coach present. They seem to be set on holding that carve even if it comes w/in a few feet of little kids. It's disturbing and unnecessary.

40% of the time I'm skiing, I find myself scanning uphill. My technique has even changed to incorporate a potentially life saving uphill scan. When on crowded slopes and skiing w/ Wifey, I ALWAYS ski behind her to block and make her experience more safe. It's become like walking on the street side of the sidewalk! Chivalry is not dead! :beercheer:
 

Dolomitiskier

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What angers me, @Tricia, is this passage in the scarce news that we an get on this (around FB there are also floating all sort or rumors about him but those are just , so far, unconfirmed rumors) :
""The child was in a single file behind the group and was about to make a right turn when she was very violently hit by the skier arriving at high speed, who tried in vain to avoid her."

Putting it into relation to the opening of the news : "The child had been taking a skiing lesson on a blue beginners' slope..."

The guy had no reason whatsoever to go at "high speed" in such a place, or at least, so near to a ski school class of children.
I know I appear judgemental, and I pray that such a thing will never, ever, ever, happen to me, be me the father or the skier, but, still, I mean , what was he thinking?
I have an 8 year old and 10 year old and honestly I cannot stand skiing the blue slopes with them because there are always, always these crazies who think they are amazing, just flying down those slopes. I never wanted to over-terrain my kids but I was so happy when we moved to mostly red pistes which are always quieter here. When they skied blue, I would ski super tight turns behind the back kid in defensive position and be worried a lot of the time. It wasn’t very enjoyable.
 

Yo Momma

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People are also deluded in this “shut down thing”. If you can’t see what’s over the knoll, it doesn’t matter if you can “shut down” quickly.
SO TRUE! :beercheer: What's with people bombing knolls w/o someone on point to clear. I had buddy I was skiing w/ out west who was one of the most amazing and intuitive skiers I'd ever seen. We all called him "The Gazelle". He pinched a knoll that launched into the woods. He didn't wait for me to signal that the roll out was clear. He still remembers me chewing him a new one and that was eons ago.

Guess what. He did it at Pow Mow after I told him to go another route around several obstacles. Now he walks w/ a permanent limp from the accident he had in the exact spot I told him to "Watch Out" for. :nono: Blind knoll in the woods w/ a submerged tree on the roll out.... skis under, him over... :crutches: .
 
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locknload

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I have an 8 year old and 10 year old and honestly I cannot stand skiing the blue slopes with them because there are always, always these crazies who think they are amazing, just flying down those slopes. I never wanted to over-terrain my kids but I was so happy when we moved to mostly red pistes which are always quieter here. When they skied blue, I would ski super tight turns behind the back kid in defensive position and be worried a lot of the time. It wasn’t very enjoyable.
This exactly. I want to get my kids off of the crazy greens and even blues where people are FLYING down the hill. Generally, I just see a total lack of speed enforcement recently. Just back from Alta/Bird and there some bad chokepoints where people carry big speed right into a congested mellower run filled with variable skiers..its just very anxiety creating for me as a parent. All the resorts need to do is pick out a few of these more dangerous intersections and actively patrol them but there is NOBODY out there. I would rather take my kids onto something a bit more challenging for them but with less crowds because I am much more worried about them getting hit by a knucklehead than them getting hurt on a run that's more difficult. I've drilled into their head that they have to stop at intersections and look and pick one line and stick to it and not meander across the slope. I'm sure its always been this way..but the lack of enforcement is what sticks out to me. I'm sorry for this little girl and her family....WTF that guy was thinking..we'll never know and he now carries this burden for the rest of his life...all he had to was ski more slowly and in control. He deserves what he gets b/c nothing will bring her back...all for nothing. What terrible waste and tragedy.
 

Tex

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I ski behind my daughter, not because I'm trying to take a hit for her, but to make uniform turns behind her. Skiers behind me see my predictive turns, and they know how/where to pass. This is especially needed on catwalks. My daughter, 22, she is terrified some of the catwalks where skiers are flying making no turn. I tell her stay on one side of the catwalk, the down hill side, many times there is a fence there. Not the up hill side, that is the side the snowbarders like to go, that side has the jumps and stuff. But I will ski behind my daughter, I'll take up half the catwalk, making turn from middle of catwalk to the edge, and everyone passes on the uphill side, and they have half the catwalk to pass, plenty of room.

Taos Whitefeather, that last long catwalk to lift one, I call that death ally, it is a perfect example of this. Right side is uphill and all the jumps, left side fence all the way down. We stay on the left side, making turns all the way down. Right side, everyone flies, no turns.
 

Dolomitiskier

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Green Circle = Easiest slope.
But called “Beginner” in the past, like Black Diamond was called “Expert”.

In Europe a Blue slope (Green) could easily be a few miles long.
“Learning Area” or Bunny hill is short and has a lift nearby.
And most of the bunny slopes are very, very small. I’ve never seen one as big as even the magic carpet at Stowe. Ski schools get the kids out to the blue pistes pretty quickly here. Small terrain areas for kids have become more popular, which I appreciate as they insulate from this stuff.
 

Dolomitiskier

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I would hope anyone who spends any time on the hill can recognize beginner skiers. They're the ones that are locked up, full body turning, and look like they're scared. That's not to make fun but to be able to recognize someone who is paying way more attention to not falling than to what's going on around them. I give them a wide berth because A) if they don't know where they're going, I sure don't and B) I don't want to startle or scare them into making a reactionary move they can't control. If that means slowing to a crawl, so be it. I don't get people bombing down through a moving slalom course no matter how good a skier they are.
One of my proudest ski mom moments was watching my 10 year old slow down and give an extra wide berth to an adult beginner on a challenging red steep section and when I complimented him he said “well, we can’t scare the beginners”.
 

Tex

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Some have post on here before about sking with your head on swivel, I practiced that a lot my last ski trip, it is an art, so it does not mess up your turns. Its kinda like swimming, you cock your head to take a breath after every stroke...After a turn and before you go into the next turn, swivel your head up hill. Its not that easy, takes some practice, lol.
 

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