Speeding skier charged with manslaughter

[LiquidFeet]

It needs to be mentioned here that some instructors are total a$$holes and irresponsible AF.
Picture this from today: top station of a chair lift, from that point down there there are only three runs-ALL of them steep reds. And I mean steep.
And just below the station-a ski school instructor leading down a file of 5 kids not more than 4 years old.
And this point is a Jerryland, all kind of wannabes flying around. Why? WTF man?

This is why I am not sure I will entrust any ski school with my kid without me being present at all times.

BTW I just could not stop thinking about this story and today deliberately decided I will ski as slow as possible. Just see how slow I can go. Concentrate on details-early edge, rounded turns etc. And yeah, it is fun. Different fun but fun.
I am thinking of pulling out my shortest turning ski next week and keeping at it for a while, cant bear the thought I can be the cause for something like this, although I have never ever crashed into someone.

Respect.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....BTW I just could not stop thinking about this story and today deliberately decided I will ski as slow as possible. Just see how slow I can go. Concentrate on details-early edge, rounded turns etc. And yeah, it is fun. Different fun but fun.
....

I'm with you here.

I used to enjoy speed. I loved the wind whistling loudly past my ears, and my skill at avoiding "moving gates." I'm a woman, but still I liked zooming at warp speed down groomers, weaving in and out of slower skiers. My ski club encourged this behavior.

Oh the shame.... I can tell stories of my near misses, but won't. It's embarrassing. I grew out of it before doing real damage to myself or others, thank goodness. I have no excuse for that behavior. Late bloomer.

I now love slow, super slow, precise, round turns. There are so many variations on how to start and end those turns, and exploring how to make all those happen is a challenge, especially on New England ice. When the skis grip the whole way around, it feels super good, and you know your balance is on pointe. Varying the radius, varying the grippage, varying the degree of completion, varying the edge angles, varying the tempo ... is fun, challenging, and pretty safe if the turns don't go all the way across the hill on a crowded day. Going slow offers safety for the skier in question, and safety for moving obstacles ahead.

This doesn't mean I don't enjoy letting it rip when the trail is empty in front of me. But usually it isn't.

Sensations .... control .... versatility .... it's all good.

And then there are the bumps..... paradise! No worries about getting hit, or hitting someone.

 

[locknload]

I'm with you here.

I used to enjoy speed. I loved the wind whistling loudly past my ears, and my skill at avoiding "moving gates." I'm a woman, but still I liked zooming at warp speed down groomers, weaving in and out of slower skiers. My ski club encourged this behavior.

Oh the shame.... I can tell stories of my near misses, but won't. It's embarrassing. I grew out of it before doing real damage to myself or others, thank goodness. I have no excuse for that behavior. Late bloomer.

I now love slow, super slow, precise, round turns. There are so many variations on how to start and end those turns, and exploring how to make all those happen is a challenge, especially on New England ice. When the skis grip the whole way around, it feels super good, and you know your balance is on pointe. Varying the radius, varying the grippage, varying the degree of completion, varying the edge angles, varying the tempo ... is fun, challenging, and pretty safe if the turns don't go all the way across the hill on a crowded day. Going slow offers safety for the skier in question, and safety for moving obstacles ahead.

This doesn't mean I don't enjoy letting it rip when the trail is empty in front of me. But usually it isn't.

Sensations .... control .... versatility .... it's all good.

And then there are the bumps..... paradise! No worries about getting hit, or hitting someone.

Speed is part of the fun right? I think most of us learn as we get older that there is a time and place to "let 'em run" and that is when nobody is out there OR you are on more challenging run with nobody near and a mistake or error is only gonna blow you up and not somebody else. Its always about context and being reasonable. It is unreasonable to barrel down a crowded beginner slope or cat-trail and just hope everyone gets out your way. I did it when I was younger..stupid and irresponsible and thank goodness I didn't hurt anyone or myself. I will sometimes accelerate to get around a group of skiers that are skiing erratically as long as I can do it safely and continue to manage my speed in a responsible manner. If I can take a steep and bumpy mogul run instead...I will..I feel much safer there. I was skiing with my Buddy this weekend at the Bird and we were on a narrow piece of trail connecting to steeper, tree runs. I was a bit behind him and a guy comes flying by me and came within a couple feet of hitting him downhill of us b/c he couldn't be bothered to slow down (we weren't skiing slow but no one else was on the trail). No warning, no words..just planned on my buddy not cutting back there...just total recklessness and it doesn't have to be that way. Would've been a serious accident had they collided.

 

[Seldomski]

I think some of this blocking stuff is the stuff of fantasies - if you are going to shield you have to do it really well as in impossible to get between you and the kid. Alternately consider you might be creating a greater risk as the jerry goes round the big thing he can see and straight into the little thing he hadn't seen.

I have skied to block for my wife. It was not so much that I expected to absorb the hit, but since I am a much larger person, people instinctively are less likely to run into me. When dealing with selfish people you have to appeal to their selfish instincts.

In flat light conditions depth perception goes out the window. The only cues to judge distance visually are (1) how big is that person (2) travel speed. Someone small and moving slowly nearby is easily confused for someone big moving quickly further away. Trick of the way the brain makes sense of what the eyes report. Suddenly that person who you thought was 60 ft away skiing 2x faster than they really are is actually 30 ft away and the gap is closing fast. So especially in flat light and crowds, I will ski to block and it greatly improves her safety.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Speed is part of the fun right? ....

For me now, it's not actually the speed. It's feeling the amazing performance and grip of the skis, the bending and unbending - at my command. Total certainty where they will take me - again at my command. What a rush.

Same for slow speed turns. Proprioception rocks.

 

[François Pugh]

There's plenty of confusion between European trail ratings and US in this thread.
=======

Piste ratings

Pistes are also graded for difficulty. Sadly, this doesn't work as well for the visitor or potential visitor as you might expect as there are different grading systems.

In Europe, the basic grading goes from blue (easy) through red to black (difficult). France adds green, effectively splitting the blue category into green (really easy, in theory) and blue (not quite so easy). In North America, the grading goes from green through blue to black, with no red. America uses shaped symbols, too (circles, squares and diamonds). At the top of the scale are double black diamonds, or even occasionally triple black diamonds which are the most difficult.

These two scales are difficult to relate, even in theory. American single black diamond runs, in particular, tend to embrace runs that might be graded red or black in Europe. American double diamonds start with runs that would be genuine blacks in Europe, but go on to include much steeper runs than you will find in any European piste network.

But wait; there's more!
In North America the grades are handed out to slopes relative to the other runs at the mountain, a black at one resort could be a blue at another. And then there's grade inflation; I've skied triple black diamonds in recent years that used to just be single black diamonds at one time.

 

[François Pugh]

It was not a slope labelled and intended only for beginners. There’s a reason we’ve gotten away from ability ratings to trails. Black Diamond is not “Expert” any more. So just because you go down it doesn’t make you an expert.
Whether those ability ratings @Sibhusky posted for France are accurate, i.e. up to date, I don’t know.


Would it really matter if it was a red slope?

People are also deluded in this “shut down thing”. If you can’t see what’s over the knoll, it doesn’t matter if you can “shut down” quickly.

Absolutely! You can't stop or turn very well in the air.

About this beginner thing, I get that almost everybody has a soft spot in their heart for children, but it should be considered just as bad to hit an experienced skier ahead of you as it is to hit an inexperienced one imho.

Besides being taught to fall before they get going too fast, beginners should be warned about what can happen on crowded runs. They do fine when they can make their big turns and not follow the fall line, but sometimes due to their skis and their own lack of ability have trouble making the required turns for speed control when they have to reroute their path to avoid other skiers and end up being funneled into a path that more closely follows the fall line. They need an alternate plan to put in place when they see that happening (like stopping while being careful not to get hit from behind).

 

[Bienski]

I have skied to block for my wife. It was not so much that I expected to absorb the hit, but since I am a much larger person, people instinctively are less likely to run into me. When dealing with selfish people you have to appeal to their selfish instincts.

In flat light conditions depth perception goes out the window. The only cues to judge distance visually are (1) how big is that person (2) travel speed. Someone small and moving slowly nearby is easily confused for someone big moving quickly further away. Trick of the way the brain makes sense of what the eyes report. Suddenly that person who you thought was 60 ft away skiing 2x faster than they really are is actually 30 ft away and the gap is closing fast. So especially in flat light and crowds, I will ski to block and it greatly improves her safety.

 

[Bienski]

Seldom ski said
I have skied to block for my wife. It was not so much that I expected to absorb the hit, but since I am a much larger person, people instinctively are less likely to run into me. When dealing with selfish people you have to appeal to their selfish instincts.

In flat light conditions depth perception goes out the window. The only cues to judge distance visually are (1) how big is that person (2) travel speed. Someone small and moving slowly nearby is easily confused for someone big moving quickly further away. Trick of the way the brain makes sense of what the eyes report. Suddenly that person who you thought was 60 ft away skiing 2x faster than they really are is actually 30 ft away and the gap is closing fast. So especially in flat light and crowds, I will ski to block and it greatly improves her safety.

I do the same, and I guarantee that if someone hits me, I will be the last person they ever hit

 

[rickg]

Some have post on here before about sking with your head on swivel, I practiced that a lot my last ski trip, it is an art, so it does not mess up your turns. Its kinda like swimming, you cock your head to take a breath after every stroke...After a turn and before you go into the next turn, swivel your head up hill. Its not that easy, takes some practice, lol.

I am also an avid motorcyclist and my is on a swivel there as well. I have always tried to be aware of every skier around me. When I get startled by a skier I did not notice, I reprimand myself to pay closer attention.

Rick G

 

[Dolomitiskier]

I have skied to block for my wife. It was not so much that I expected to absorb the hit, but since I am a much larger person, people instinctively are less likely to run into me. When dealing with selfish people you have to appeal to their selfish instincts.

In flat light conditions depth perception goes out the window. The only cues to judge distance visually are (1) how big is that person (2) travel speed. Someone small and moving slowly nearby is easily confused for someone big moving quickly further away. Trick of the way the brain makes sense of what the eyes report. Suddenly that person who you thought was 60 ft away skiing 2x faster than they really are is actually 30 ft away and the gap is closing fast. So especially in flat light and crowds, I will ski to block and it greatly improves her safety.

This is why my husband and I ski right behind our kids…it’s really about visibility from behind. Kids can be harder to see. And I stay pretty close on their tails so I’m not super worried about someone coming around me.

 

[Dolomitiskier]

My sister in law is a PSIA 2 children’s specialist and has taught at Stowe, Garmisch and Vail and she has some crazy stories of assholes.

 

[Nobody]

This is why my husband and I ski right behind our kids…it’s really about visibility from behind. Kids can be harder to see. And I stay pretty close on their tails so I’m not super worried about someone coming around me.

There is an inherent risk in that too...too close to the kid, and we are going to be the ones who risk to hit them. It happened to my mother on the Marmolada, she was skiing behind my youngest (back then in the 2000's) son in a "defensive" position, but ended up swiping him because the boy stopped suddenly due to a bump field (in low visibility). So, yes, me too I ski behind and close, but am also wary of being not too close...the distance and speed need to be finely tweaked to obtain the desired results.

 

[Dolomitiskier]

There is an inherent risk in that too...too close to the kid, and we are going to be the ones who risk to hit them. It happened to my mother on the Marmolada, she was skiing behind my youngest (back then in the 2000's) son in a "defensive" position, but ended up swiping him because the boy stopped suddenly due to a bump field (in low visibility). So, yes, me too I ski behind and close, but am also wary of being not too close...the distance and speed need to be finely tweaked to obtain the desired results.

Agree! That’s why it’s so stressful to ski with small kids. I’m still super vigilant but now that they are bigger and very good it’s a little easier.

 

[ThomasD]

I ran interference for my kids when they were just starting out. The difference was night and day when I was tailgunning vs laying back at a distance. Making it all too clear that the problem is often not inattentiveness or carelessness but a willful disregard for people that are not perceived as a potential threat.

 

[locknload]

For me now, it's not actually the speed. It's feeling the amazing performance and grip of the skis, the bending and unbending - at my command. Total certainty where they will take me - again at my command. What a rush.

Same for slow speed turns. Proprioception rocks.

I feel you...I like both. I love making super crisp, clean turns and chasing perfection AND I love letting longer skis do that they want to do (safely of course) make long, arcing turns as they cut into the mountain. Anytime you strap boards on your feet and ask gravity to take you down...speed IS part of the equation...only a question of how much we intervene and control it AND we should do so safely...that is the skiers code.

 

[Tony Storaro]

There is an inherent risk in that too...too close to the kid, and we are going to be the ones who risk to hit them. It happened to my mother on the Marmolada, she was skiing behind my youngest (back then in the 2000's) son in a "defensive" position, but ended up swiping him because the boy stopped suddenly due to a bump field (in low visibility). So, yes, me too I ski behind and close, but am also wary of being not too close...the distance and speed need to be finely tweaked to obtain the desired results.

Friendly fire doesn’t count!

 

[ihocky2]

Someone large hits you at 50mph, high or low, you’re likely going to the hospital and maybe the morgue.

That is a risk I am okay with. I'll take that hit and the outcomes from it rather than have my kids take that hit and probably worse outcomes. I would rather none of us take the hit, but if it has to be someone I would rather it be me.

I have an 8 year old and 10 year old and honestly I cannot stand skiing the blue slopes with them because there are always, always these crazies who think they are amazing, just flying down those slopes. I never wanted to over-terrain my kids but I was so happy when we moved to mostly red pistes which are always quieter here. When they skied blue, I would ski super tight turns behind the back kid in defensive position and be worried a lot of the time. It wasn’t very enjoyable.

This is the same place I am at right now. My son is really starting to make nice turns and control his speed and actions on the greens and is not afraid of blues but is not proficient enough to ski them all the time. At least not yet. The mountain we ski the most has fairly short trails and not a lot of them. One of the greens is usually all beginners but there are still idiots who fly down it our of control some times. The two greens next to it are marked for SLOW but they are kind of the next progression up and also main routes to the lift or lodge so people FLY down them. Ski patrol tries to help it, but they can't be everywhere all the time. Two of the blues are short and don't get much bomb runs but the main blue trail that is long gets a ton of them.

The black runs are not much better because even though they are steep and icy a lot of times, they are short so people who don't have the skill to be on them are there all the time. Either snowplowing their way down or people that can't control themselves making bomb runs straight down it.

 

[Chipped K2]

I've seen so many out-of-control skiers where I used to teach.......frankly I never encouraged visitors to come there on weekends, it was just too crowded with dangerous people that if they got a lesson, never learned anything.

 

[Bozzenhagen]

Saw a patroller on a snowboard straightlining down Copperopolis with a backpack on. He didn't really have a good sense of balance on a snowboard; he was just starting to lose his balance as he went over the "firm" snow by the NASTAR course.

Probably got the job due to the staffing shortage.