Spot reheat on Intuition liner

[SpikeDog]

I'm using an Intuition Luxury medium volume liner in a Fischer Vacuum Hybrid 12+ boot, both size 31. The liners have only 5 days on them, 2 last season and now 3 this season. There's a fold along the left toe area, and it presses down onto my fourth toe (next to the pinky). I've tried cooking the liner with a hair dryer from the outside while a sock is stuffed into the toe area, and it does seem to be an improvement with it all put back together hot. However, it doesn't seem very permanent, and I think it's going to go right back during the next ski day. The rest of the liner fits fine on both feet.

I have a heat gun I could use instead of the hair dryer, which doesn't seem to get hot enough to activate the foam. The 200 degree setpoint is not going to be reached by a hair dryer. However, I'm a bit nervous to try my heat gun, as I've destroyed a few things with the darn thing over the years. Anyone use this technique, or have a different approach? Intuition recommends a small rice bag to do spot reheats.

 

[graham418]

My heat gun has 3 heat settings and 3 fan speeds. I can wreck stuff slowly, or really quickly. I would be very, very careful. Microwaving a bag of rice would be my first attempt.

 

[cantunamunch]

I've tried cooking the liner with a hair dryer from the outside while a sock is stuffed into the toe area, and it does seem to be an improvement with it all put back together hot. However, it doesn't seem very permanent, and I think it's going to go right back during the next ski day.

Did you feel around inside the shell for what might be causing the fold? Did you overpad the problem area beforehand and extra-tight-buckle the toe buckles during liner cooldown?

 

[neonorchid]

• CAN I CHANGE ONE AREA OF THE LINER OR DO I HAVE TO REMOLD THE WHOLE THING? / HOW TO ‘SPOT MOLD’?​

• Very carefully with a heat gun (recommended to do at a shop), or try making a smaller rice bag and putting it on the specific area you wish to adjust.

 

[Alexzn]

In my limited experience Intuition liners need a full re-cook unless the adjustment done by a very experienced boot fitter.

 

[cantunamunch]

In my limited experience Intuition liners need a full re-cook unless the adjustment done by a very experienced boot fitter.

Eh, it's a Luxury liner - unless something in the shell/at the toe seal is actively causing the fold the whole thing will pack out in 15-20 ski days anyway.

(only half joking here)

 

[neonorchid]

I used a hair dryer to expand the toe shape of a NIB un-molded Scarpa Intuition liner I was playing around with. I wanted to find out if it's pointy toe would conform to my "Altra sneaker" toe shape without doing the entire liner and completely messing them up for the next person if I were to return them. Spent about 5 - 10 minutes spot heating the toe. It worked but I ended up returning them because the booties wide throat shaped for a Scarpa Maestrale allowed the tongue to easily pop out of the Tecnica OG's 4 buckle overlap shell when putting the boot on and was a PITA to get the tongue back into place which I came to the realization would be much worse booting up at a trail head.

 

[SpikeDog]

There's nothing poking out in the boot frame there. The big wrinkle is basically from the liner being slightly bigger than the boot, so it had to go somewhere. My homemade toe caps weren't effective in pooching the liner out enough to keep the foldover from happening.

 

[cantunamunch]

The big wrinkle is basically from the liner being slightly bigger than the boot, so it had to go somewhere.

IME to correct that the most effective measure is to re-do the whole liner. Have a helper to yank hot material up and out of the boot shell. Like HARD, with both hands. It's far better to have 3-4 inches of liner showing above the cuff than to have wrinkles in the boot.

 

[Noodler]

IME to correct that the most effective measure is to re-do the whole liner. Have a helper to yank hot material up and out of the boot shell. Like HARD, with both hands. It's far better to have 3-4 inches of liner showing above the cuff than to have wrinkles in the boot.

Agreed. The other benefit of a second full reheat is that the liner will shrink up a bit (although the foam does become a bit more dense). Clearly the liner wasn't sized properly if wrinkles resulted.

 

[otto]

I would love to end this thread by giving some usable, factual, information, along with some anecdotal thoughts...

Fact #1. Ultralon foam, which is the brand name for the material that Intuition liners are made of, "kicks" for molding at 220 degrees Fahrenheit. That 220 has to be delivered evenly through either a convection style oven ( which can be acquired through a number of suppliers ) or a set of hot air stacks, ( which can be acquired through a number of suppliers ) Those approved heating devices are the only way to heat evenly the entire liner for molding. Specifically if the liner is an intuition after market liner the only way to get it to mold to the foot and to the internal shape of the shell is in the convection oven. If the liner has already been heat matched to the shell in the factory, you can use the hot air stacks because you are only attempting to get a molded match on the inside of the liner that adapts to the foot shape.

Fact #2. Attempting to mold your Intuition liner with a hair dryer, hardware store heat gun, or a sock filled with rice that you warm in the microwave, will work as well as riding a tricycle on a motocross track!

Fact #3. When molding, you need to use "real" toe caps with enough girth to press out a nice, roomy, toe box shape. The recommended method is to use a hard rubber pre-shaped toe cap over a neoprene toe cap. If you are good at math, you will instantly recognize that I am suggesting that you use 2 toecaps. No one ever complains about have too much toe room as long as the rear of the foot is locked down to the shell.

Fact #4. If you have specific pockets that you want to build in the liner for the boney protrusions on your feet, it is necessary to use firm materials attached to those boney prominences when molding, to relieve or redistribute the pressure on the high spots of your foot.

Fact #5. Properly purchased for the volume of your foot and the volume of the shell, properly prepped by using the correct density of padding and the proper toe caps, heated correctly in terms of temperature and length of time for the liner and the altitude, and performed by a fitter that is not using you and your boot as their training monkey, Intuition liners work very well. The point is if those basics are not adhered to, it dramatically reduces your chances of getting the comfort, warmth, and performance that Intuition liners are designed to deliver.

Now for the anecdotal stuff...

1. As a gross generalization, Online purchased Intuition liner users are fiercely independent and would much rather discuss the process adnauseum, then butch the process by doing it yourself at home with cut off sock toe caps, rather than mold the liners safely and properly. Anyone with $250 in their pocket could easily go into a ski shop that has the equipment, the knowledge and experience. If we were still in the 1950's the Intuition DIYers would probably be the couple that decided to buy their dream home from Sears and Roebucks catalogue and were so excited when the semi truck arrived and dumped the whole bundle in front of your empty lot.

2. If you believe that you can get a sock full of rice up to 220 degrees and stay at that temperature for a long enough time period to "kick" the foam into a puffed up marshmallow that will conform to the foot or the boot shell, than I would love to discuss with you the possibility of purchasing some prime low lying swamp land in the sunshine state of Fllorida.

3. Hair dryer...Right!

4. Hot air gun, pointed directly at the nylon cover of the Ultralon foam.... only to be performed with a fire extinguisher in the other hand, and a bucket of water on the floor.


OP, to fix the problem you need to follow the facts. Which for your problem it means prepping your foot with the proper padding and double toe caps and then heating the liner in a 220 convection oven for the recommended time based on the model of liner, the thickness of the liner, and the altitude of where you are molding. This will solve your wrinkled toe box problem. The more times you attempt to mold an Intuition liner, the harder the material becomes and the less it puffs up. Translated that means one time yes, second time OK, third time you are howling at the moon... The oven or stacks, the higher density sticky backed foam, the toe caps, and the skills are all available in ski shops that have a reputation for good boot fitting. You want it done so you get the best result? Get into one of those shops or boot fitters.

 

[SpikeDog]

Now for the anecdotal stuff...

1. As a gross generalization, Online purchased Intuition liner users are fiercely independent and would much rather discuss the process adnauseum, then butch the process by doing it yourself at home with cut off sock toe caps, rather than mold the liners safely and

I like this quote - sums it up pretty well. DIY'ers have no shame.

I used a heat gun to spot heat the liner. It was a "two speed" heat gun, and I had my fingers inside the liner at the crease to feel any temperature rise. With the gun on low, it wasn't really penetrating the foam, and I felt like I couldn't get even outward pressure with just my hand. I pushed a big sock into the toe, and cranked the heat gun up to 2. I could see now a slight orange glow from the heat gun interior shining on the liner, and the foam began to smooth out after about 15 seconds. I worked the gun on a wider area for another 10 seconds, then stuffed the liner into the boot. I pushed another sock into the toe and put the buckles on the usual tooth.

Seemed to go smoothly, and when I pulled the liner after an hour, it looked good. Maybe a hint of an outward bulge that disappeared when I pulled out the socks. I'll be skiing Jackson Hole all next week, so I'll know pretty soon how it turns out.

 

[TDCSPRINGS]

I have been using intuitions for years and have home cooked and had shop cooked liners with identical results. I do have a convection oven, but have friends that cooked theirs just fine in a traditional, non-forced air oven. Yes, you can screw up the liners if not done correctly (have personally done 6 - 7 pairs and never even slightly damaged one), but there are plenty of instructions and videos that will walk you through it. It isnt rocket science and the only people saying not to do it are unsurprisingly those that sell and/or charge to cook intuitions in a shop.

 

[PaganSkier]

Personally I don't like the feeling of toe caps - and double toe cap; absolutely not unless possibly ski touring terrain that has long flat approaches. I have a very prominent big toe - almost as long as my pinky finger (I've won several beer bets on this anomaly). Second toe is almost 1 cm shorter. My method - foam spreaders between toes, tape a foam chunk onto the end of my big toe, tape foam chunks onto 6th toe and heel bunion. Pre-heat shells in heated boot bag, heat liners in my regular oven at 220degF with liner wrapped in damp towel. It's pretty evident when the liner is cooked as it gets a nice puffy look - but absolutely do not error on the side of over-cooked. Footbed goes inside the sock along with the toe spreaders and taped on chunks of foam. Use leather gloves with good dexterity to handle the liners out of the oven. The pre-heated shells will open easily and allow you to jam the whole works into the shells. Flex into the boot, and make sure heel is seated by whatever means works for you. Buckle up, but not too tight! Stand with both boots on with 2x4 under the heels, and flex occasionally to make sure you can pull toes off the end of the boot. Drink a cold beverage of your choice while the liners cool to shape.

Fiercely independent - you bet your ass, but I own the finished product! I have molded 5 pair of liners exactly as desired. I have had 3 pair of liners cooked at various well regarded ski shops, and they never nailed it. I sometimes ride up the lift, and it just dawns on me how absolutely comfortable my feet are, and then buckle down at the top with just the lightest flick of the buckles with perfect tension. I agree with Otto on the rice in the sock BS. All that did was ruin a nice wool sock.

 

[SpikeDog]

Well, I have 8 days on the reheated liner now (Jackson Hole, Steamboat, and Telluride) and the repair is perfect. My left foot is happy and snug with very light buckle pressure. Meanwhile, the other boot liner is packing out on my right foot much quicker, but that's another topic.

If Intuition wanted you to go only to a bootfitter, they wouldn't have the instructions on their website:

Boot Liner Home Fitting | Intuition Liners

Intuition Liners offer easy fitting options for consumers to try the boot liners in the comfort of their own home. Check out how to get home fitting liners!

intuitionliners.com