Stöckli Laser WRT ST vs SC?

Rebound Hound

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Anyone tried both and compared them? What are your thoughts on the strengths and weaknesses of each? I gave them a flex in the shop and the WRT seemed much stiffer. Other than that I can see about 6mm underfoot difference but a similar turn radius designed for a mix of long and short turns. Perhaps the SC will offer more scope for varying turns as less power is needed to bend the ski? I really want a ski that I can have total confidence in no matter how hard and icy the snow is. Perhaps that comes down to edge tuning though? I know 66mm will make it quicker to engage the edge. The best ski i've come across so far for that was the Atomic X9. In other conditions I didn't really like it that much.

I ski nearly every day of the season but do you need very high / borderline racer level fitness and strength to get the best out of the WRT ST? Does it generate a lot more excitement, rebound and speed in the turn? I gather that the SC is quite an easy going ski - does it's relative softness hinder edge grip? I think i'd be looking at 172cm in the WRT and 177cm in the SC.

I hear a lot of talk about the marker piston plate but was thinking of just going with the Standard D20 speed plate and SRT 12 binding.

Thanks!
 
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Paul Lutes

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Currently on the WRT ST, tried the SC 3-4 years ago, so for what it's worth ......

It's my understanding that all the WRT models are essentially built to (nearly??) FIS standards while the SCs are less burly (although I don't think I would call them easy going) , and my recollection of how the SC felt would seem to bear this out. At the time I was on the SCs I thought I was just not .... something (heavy enough? good enough? fast enough?) They felt unstable and squirrely to me and I moved them along. The WRT STs are a whole different universe - delightfully stable on firm, but very nimble. They are stiff enough that the radius number is a little misleading - you'll have to work bit for tighter turns, or just turn quicker. I consider them to be the best hard snow ski I've ever been on, but they have also handled handled a couple of inches of corn/wind blown/powder delightfully well.

The usual caveat: I only mount free heel bindings.

Oh, and I am most certainly NOT borderline racer level fit, and 70 years old. 160 pounds, 6'1", and I'm on the 172s.
 
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WadeHoliday

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I skied both, own the SC. WRT felt very "racy" to me, for an on piste ski in CA, SC have plenty of hold and stability at non race speeds. WRT if you are on ice coast and want to ski really fast all the time, imo.
cheers!
W
 
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Rebound Hound

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I'm an instructor on ISIA training so it's very important that I can ski with controlled precision in a variety of turn radii. Sure I like to bomb it with long and short turns but they must be technically good ones. I like the feeling of speed but married with control and grip so it's more about good technique and a good feeling of rebound that gives me excitement rather than outright racing speed. Quick but controlled. What radius would you say the 172cm were in terms of feel rather than the stated 15m? I quite like a 16m radius.

I have skied the 177cm SC and found I skied great on them. What size did you try? Long turns felt natural, short turns had a nice rebound - didn't feel too stiff nor unstable. Hitting about 40-50mph in the turn on them felt absolutely fine. In a word they felt 'compliant' and did what I wanted them to do but they weren't boring doing it. I did test them twice - once from a really good shop and once from another shop which I can only assume was a tourist tune because they seemed to really lack grip.

I'm not sure which would be better for moguls - the thin precision of the WRT or the softer, bigger platform of the SC. I'm sure the SC would be better off piste which is something I'd have to do with them for exams but after exams I doubt i'd ever use them off piste again.

I have skied the 181cm Atomic X9 Green which seems quite a similar ski in some ways - 66 underfoot, stiff, heavy and a radius between Slalom and detuned GS. I did like how easy they were to get on edge but when the pistes weren't flat they were very hard work. I did feel on sleeper slopes that the 181cm was a little much - 177cm is a good size ski for me.
 
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Noodler

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I'm an instructor on ISIA training so it's very important that I can ski with controlled precision in a variety of turn radii. Sure I like to bomb it with long and short turns but they must be technically good ones. I like the feeling of speed but married with control and grip so it's more about good technique and a good feeling of rebound that gives me excitement rather than outright racing speed. Quick but controlled. What radius would you say the 172cm were in terms of feel rather than the stated 15m? I quite like a 16m radius.

I have skied the 177cm SC and found I skied great on them. What size did you try? Long turns felt natural, short turns had a nice rebound - didn't feel too stiff nor unstable. Hitting about 40-50mph in the turn on them felt absolutely fine. In a word they felt 'compliant' and did what I wanted them to do but they weren't boring doing it. I did test them twice - once from a really good shop and once from another shop which I can only assume was a tourist tune because they seemed to really lack grip.

I'm not sure which would be better for moguls - the thin precision of the WRT or the softer, bigger platform of the SC. I'm sure the SC would be better off piste which is something I'd have to do with them for exams but after exams I doubt i'd ever use them off piste again.

I have skied the 181cm Atomic X9 Green which seems quite a similar ski in some ways - 66 underfoot, stiff, heavy and a radius between Slalom and detuned GS. I did like how easy they were to get on edge but when the pistes weren't flat they were very hard work. I did feel on sleeper slopes that the 181cm was a little much - 177cm is a good size ski for me.
I would take the SC in the moguls over the WRT every day. The WRT is barely one step away from a full blown FIS race ski. Sure you could take it in the moguls, but you better bring your "A game" too.
 
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KevinF

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I use the SC in Vermont as my ice skate. I use the 170cm length which is maybe a little short under my 180 pounds but it still has plenty of grip. It’s actually pretty versatile as @Noodler says.

I’ve never tried the WRT’s - crowded slopes and skis that don’t work until Mach loonyaren’t a good combo.
 

Brad J

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You guy are making me want to buy the SC , that I need like another hole in my head ????
 

Guy in Shorts

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The SC in 177cm is my one narrow ski. When I bought them the plan was to make my race runs then swap back to my wide boards for the rest of the day. Instead they stayed on feet slaying the bumps, trees, and powder. Crazy as it sounds I really love these is up to a foot of fresh. The most versatile ski in my quiver. They encourage me to ski better.
 

Paul Lutes

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As the lone WRT voice in the wilderness, it does sound like the SC's versatility would be a better fit for the OP.
Regarding speed, however, While the WRT definitely shines at higher speeds, I have had no issue with it's control and maneuverability at low speeds.
 

Eric Edelstein

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I have not skied the latest version of the SC...but have talked to skiers who have experience with the SC who say it has a larger performance range in different conditions, but is not as single-minded and intense as the WRT.. My quick observation about he WRT ST from last Spring's rollout of new skis:


Stöckli WRT ST
172cm
100-66-118 r=14.8m


This is an addicting specialty item from the producers of some of the most respected carving skis on the planet. Stöckli describes it as a short-radius GS ski, and they are half-right. The WRT is also a longer, large-radius SL ski....You wil be hard pressed to find a 66mm underfoot non-race ski these days, and the WRT is a hot-rod Ginsu knife with a take-no-prisoners attitude. Racer-types will immediately love this ski and its reaction to race-turn input by the pilot. It delivers a hard-hitting turn with authority and confidence and begs for another...and another...and another until the skier makes a mistake or gives up. The WRT is a hard-surface etching tool with intense G-force capabilities. This ski is not for the faint-of-heart and does not forgive errors in application of its chassis to the the snow, but gives you such a ride that you might want to get back into racing. Super handsome and impeccably built and finished. Carving aficionados will want to save their money to have a pair of these in the quiver for those squeeky-tight hardpack days when skis only leave a slight cut mark into the snow and leave no spray. A ripping street fighter of a ski with top-of-the-line refinement for technical skiers who have good physical conditioning and alert reflexes. You can have it in any length as long as its a 172cm.
 

Noodler

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I have not skied the latest version of the SC...but have talked to skiers who have experience with the SC who say it has a larger performance range in different conditions, but is not as single-minded and intense as the WRT.. My quick observation about he WRT ST from last Spring's rollout of new skis:


Stöckli WRT ST
172cm
100-66-118 r=14.8m


This is an addicting specialty item from the producers of some of the most respected carving skis on the planet. Stöckli describes it as a short-radius GS ski, and they are half-right. The WRT is also a longer, large-radius SL ski....You wil be hard pressed to find a 66mm underfoot non-race ski these days, and the WRT is a hot-rod Ginsu knife with a take-no-prisoners attitude. Racer-types will immediately love this ski and its reaction to race-turn input by the pilot. It delivers a hard-hitting turn with authority and confidence and begs for another...and another...and another until the skier makes a mistake or gives up. The WRT is a hard-surface etching tool with intense G-force capabilities. This ski is not for the faint-of-heart and does not forgive errors in application of its chassis to the the snow, but gives you such a ride that you might want to get back into racing. Super handsome and impeccably built and finished. Carving aficionados will want to save their money to have a pair of these in the quiver for those squeeky-tight hardpack days when skis only leave a slight cut mark into the snow and leave no spray. A ripping street fighter of a ski with top-of-the-line refinement for technical skiers who have good physical conditioning and alert reflexes. You can have it in any length as long as its a 172cm.
Of course now there's a 180cm to go along with the 2 original shorter lengths. :)
 

Eric Edelstein

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Ah yes... I stand corrected... 162cm, 172cm, 180cm... I think the 180 would be an interesting ride >16.3m radius...!
 
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Rebound Hound

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Thanks for your thoughts guys. Has anyone tried the atomic X9 green to compare to the WRT? Seems like they have a lot in common.

Sounds like the WRT is probably the aspirational ski I want but perhaps the SC is the ski I need. As long as the SC offers excellent grip on hardpack / ice I'll probably happy with it. I did read a review that awarded the SC the highest score in piste performance but mentioned:

"On the other hand, at very high speed, it loses a little of its lustre: the ski becomes less clear and the presses less solid."

I'm not sure what qualifies at very high speed though and that was a review of the 170cm not the 177cm. Are there any other skis similar to the SC or WRT that I might want to consider? The Head E-Race seems like it could be a similar kind of thing too.
 

Noodler

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Thanks for your thoughts guys. Has anyone tried the atomic X9 green to compare to the WRT? Seems like they have a lot in common.

Sounds like the WRT is probably the aspirational ski I want but perhaps the SC is the ski I need. As long as the SC offers excellent grip on hardpack / ice I'll probably happy with it. I did read a review that awarded the SC the highest score in piste performance but mentioned:

"On the other hand, at very high speed, it loses a little of its lustre: the ski becomes less clear and the presses less solid."

I'm not sure what qualifies at very high speed though and that was a review of the 170cm not the 177cm. Are there any other skis similar to the SC or WRT that I might want to consider? The Head E-Race seems like it could be a similar kind of thing too.
The Atomic X9 WB is a nice ski. I really enjoyed it when I tested skis last season. It's a nice bang-for-the-buck if you're looking for a ski that carves some nice arcs, but can also do some light all-mountain duty. However, it's just not in the same class as the two Stöckli skis you're considering (and it's not trying to be). There's a definite improvement in the smoothness with these Stöckli skis. I would agree with the review you found that the top end of the SC is not where the WRT lives. The WRT is a hybridized racing ski; an interesting mix of an SL and GS with race-room construction. That's not the SC, but you will pay a premium for the privilege of owning the WRT. Is it worth it to you over the SC? Only you can decide that.
 
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Rebound Hound

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The WB is the grey one - the X9S is the one I mean - more comparable to the WRT in radius, width and stiffness. It's like a narrow much more turny G9. What kind of speed limit would you put on the SC in mph or km/h. I felt comfortable carving long turns in the 40-50mph range. People do say Stöckli are smooth and Atomic have more spring/pop which can be quite fun. The money doesn't matter so much really as i'm skiing a almost everyday of the winter. As long as the WRT isn't too much of a handful for me and can still allow me to do all my drills and demonstrations at low speeds i'll probably be extremely happy with it. I haven't skied anything with race-room construction before.

I read this about the WRT and I have no kind of race background: "Designed by Stöckli’s World Cup Race Team, the Laser WRT intoxicated like a fine scotch and appealed to testers with formal race training. Those without race backgrounds, however, described the ski with plenty of exclamation points and expletives. These rocket ships aren’t for everyone".

What bindings and plate do you think I should get for the WRT?
 
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flbufl

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As far as I understand, the WRT is basically a FIS SL with a slightly longer turn radius.

If I were you, I would start with a pair of FIS SL first, then decide if I need the WRT or rather GS skis (22m-27m radii ones, tweener GS or old FIS rules) as the second pair.

Also, if you opt for this route, consider bring another pair of softer skis like Stöckli SC for afternoon skiing on a sunny day.


The WB is the grey one - the X9S is the one I mean - more comparable to the WRT in radius, width and stiffness. It's like a narrow much more turny G9. What kind of speed limit would you put on the SC in mph or km/h. I felt comfortable carving long turns in the 40-50mph range. People do say Stöckli are smooth and Atomic have more spring/pop which can be quite fun. The money doesn't matter so much really as i'm skiing a almost everyday of the winter. As long as the WRT isn't too much of a handful for me and can still allow me to do all my drills and demonstrations at low speeds i'll probably be extremely happy with it. I haven't skied anything with race-room construction before.

I read this about the WRT and I have no kind of race background: "Designed by Stöckli’s World Cup Race Team, the Laser WRT intoxicated like a fine scotch and appealed to testers with formal race training. Those without race backgrounds, however, described the ski with plenty of exclamation points and expletives. These rocket ships aren’t for everyone".

What bindings and plate do you think I should get for the WRT?
 

ski otter 2

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(I agree with the suggestions of the @flbufl post as another possibility. Maybe after you own and get used to the FIS SL 165, a readily available ski, then decide. At that point, there would be a lot of options to cover the middle turn ground the WRT can get at. In addition to what skis @flbufl suggested next, maybe also the usually softer Masters Pro spec GS skis, 185/23 or 25, as the old FIS 183/23 is often scarce now.)

I can't make the comparison to the Laser SC, sorry. But, I have skied the various binding/plate versions of the WRT ST 172.

I think it's useful to think of the WRT ST as a slightly longer radius FIS SL, but only as a starting point.

The WRT 172 ST is not really an FIS Sl with a slightly longer turn radius. (The Rossi Hero Elite Plus 14/174 is my favorite of those.)

Whatever it is, it would take me some getting used to, compared to other FIS race skis.

The WRT with the WRT race plate/binding setup, in particular, is something else. (Please excuse my ignorance as to exactly what.) Higher performance than most FIS race skis available to the public, to start with. It's said to have a GS dynamic in a shorter radius, and a wider radius range, and thus also has a versatile ability to do multiple turn sizes and shapes in the way an SL ski can start to do (with the shorter range of turns), but then can't really do. It is, to me, one step up from either a consumer/"normal" SL or GS FIS tech ski, IF mounted with the race ski plate/binding alternative. For the OP's needs - and mine, maybe it wants more continuous concentration and care (though maybe not if one got used to it, not sure).

If the more relaxed binding/plate is used, on the other hand, the SRT, then it gets more easeful, about the same, for me, as a normal FIS tech SL ski in terms of technique and focus; and at least for me, it then gets more versatile, in terms of uneven, moguled and skied off terrain. Either version will do such terrain incredibly - with enough concentration. But the SRT version is forgiving and relaxing by comparison. That version I could ski all day. The WRT race plate/binding version would take some getting used to, in that regard, however. For me, a constant carefulness - at least at first.
 
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Rebound Hound

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I'm quite happy with my Blizzard Brahma 82 for piste, off piste and powder as long as it's not hardpack / ice. I actually bought it instead of the SC as i wanted something better for off piste but also decent on the piste. Thanks for the binding review - seems like SRT bindings on it could be quite a nice combo to make sure they aren't too full on race.

For my course a true SL isn't an option - I could get away with a 14m 170+ slalom ski though. The spec of ski they want me to buy is:

Radius between 15-18m and a width underfoot of no more than 75mm at the very most - 70mm is ideal.

Stiff but not too stiff - more a piste performance ski than a race ski so it's easy enough to bend it into a variety of shapes and for moguls.

For example he recommends the head e-race for a very high end level 3 and more for a level 4 course - advises to go for the e-speed or e-magnum instead. He recommends the Speed Course Master GS Konnect 169 (I normally ski 175-180) or the Speed Omeglass SL Konnekt (173cm) rather than the R22 race plate versions since they are a bit softer and more forgiving (he skis the R22 version himself).

I do want a ski that has an amazing edge hold and inspires confidence rather than fear on rock hard pistes.
 
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